DIVINE TRUTH

Getting to Know God & the World’s Definition of God

Divine Truth

Discover God’s Universal Truth and Receive God’s Love

(all information can be found at divinetruth.com)

Preface and Compilation by Pat Stewart

patdotstewart@gmail.com

06 March 2026

All compilations can be found at The Written Word (thewrittenword.ca)

Front Cover Photo: EvgeniT (pixabay.com)

Excerpt from the Divine Truth website on Intellectual Property

Divine Truth Policies, Terms & Conditions:

All materials, including but not limited to videos, audios, documents, e-books, and event materials provided by the Divine Truth organization are the intellectual property of Alan John Miller and Mary Suzanne Luck. Alan John Miller and Mary Suzanne Luck provide these materials via the Divine Truth website and other electronic means to any person world-wide who wishes to freely distribute these materials for any purpose.

The Divine Truth organization, Alan John Miller, and Mary Suzanne Luck do not agree with any attempt by a third party to benefit financially from their free distribution of this material, to claim copyright over the material, to claim ownership or authorship of the material, to modify the material without their consent, or to restrict the free distribution of the material.

Preface

This is an independent project undertaken by me and is not associated with Jesus & Mary and the Divine Truth Organization.

This book is a compilation of two seminars, the first one, Getting to Know God was delivered on 7th May 2011 in Melbourne, Australia and the second one, The World’s Definition of God was delivered on 11th September 2011 in Murgon, Queensland, Australia by Jesus (also known as AJ Miller) and Mary Magdalene (also known as Mary Luck) as part of the Relationship with God series,

In the Getting to Know God seminar, Jesus and Mary describe the way in which we can discover the truth about God and about other subjects through a process of experimentation.

In The World’s Definition of God seminar, Jesus and Mary discuss the disparities between the world’s different viewpoints of God and the truth about God’s Attributes and Characteristics, with a particular emphasis on contradictions that are presented about God in the Bible.

The seminars used for this compilation are:

Q&A Getting to Know God – May 07, 2011

The World’s Definition of God S1P1 – Sept 11, 2011

The World’s Definition of God S1P2 – Sept 11, 2011

To access the links for these seminars you can either go to the Divine Truth website (divinetruth.com) and click on downloads, click on event year, and scroll to the appropriate date to find the video from YouTube.

Or you can go to The Written Word website (thewrittenword.ca) and click on the appropriate book under the Books tab. To find the pdf with all the links, click on the Book Title in the Book Details section.

Other than this Preface, I did not write any of the material in this book. All information came from the Divine Truth website (divinetruth.com).

Pat Stewart

patdotstewart@gmail.com

Table of Contents

Preface

1. Introduction

2. The emotional basis of Chronic Fatigue

2.1. Spirits draw energy from us through our emotional injuries

2.1.1. Feeling our fear protects us from spirit influence

2.2. Processing spirits’ emotions

2.3. Processing fear by living in truth

2.4. We can avoid fear of anger by placating others or creating illness

2.5. Coming to trust God through our emotional processing

3. Getting to know God

4. The three categories of truth

4.1. Being realistic about what we know for certain

5. How to discover the truth about God

5.1. Determining whether God exists

5.2. Determining whether God is good or bad

5.3. Determining whether God is an entity or an energy

5.4. Determining if we can have a relationship with God

5.5. Determining if God cares for us

5.6. Experimenting with our relationship with God

5.7. Embracing the process of asking questions about God

6. Truth is only certain once we have experienced it

7. Reasons why we don’t enjoy the discovery process

7.1. God created us to experiment

8. Using experimentation to discover other truths

8.1. The example of Jesus’ resurrection

8.2. Experimenting with Divine Truth teachings

8.2.1. The example of Mary growing in love

8.2.2. If there’s any doubt about truth, it’s still in the “maybe” category

9. What it is like to be at-one with God

9.1. Having no fear

9.2. Loving others at all times

9.3. Feeling constantly loved by God

9.4. Feeling good about yourself

9.5. Speaking the truth at all times

9.6. Being completely God reliant

9.7. Feeling others’ emotions

9.8. Discovering the truth about at-onement

10. Being willing to make mistakes

10.1. The example of AJ being truthful about his identity

11. Closing Words

The World’s Definition of God: Part 1

1. Introduction

1.1. Holy books that falsely portray God cannot be relied upon as God’s Word

1.2. Emotions that children have towards their parents are imposed upon God

1.3. The world’s definition of God arises from holy books

2. Different perceptions of God in the world

2.1. New Age concepts

2.2. The Bible’s concepts

2.3. The truth about God

3. Scientifically determining the truth about God

3.1. The Christian perspective that God punishes mankind for their sins

3.2. The Christian perspective that they communicate with God through Jesus

3.3. Using logic and love to determine God’s Attributes and Qualities

3.3.1. How AJ discovered God’s Attributes and Characteristics in the first century

3.4. Reasons for resisting discovering the truth about God

3.5. Using logic and love to determine God’s Attributes and Qualities (continued)

3.5.1. God’s Emotions

3.5.2. An example of a participant who has investigated many spiritual paths

3.6. Logic needs to be applied without emotional filters

3.6.1. Knowing what love is by recognising the truth

3.7. Believing that we have more love than God is not logical

3.8. Contradictions in the Bible about God’s Loving Nature

3.8.1. The issue of God giving us free will

4. Religion, control and tithing

4.1. Religion and tithing

4.2. Priests versus prophets

5. The truth about God giving us free will

5.1. Testing the truth about free will

The World’s Definition of God: Part 2

6. AJ addresses the audience’s resistance to the discussion

7. The importance of understanding God

8. God and the universe

8.1. Reasons for resistance to logic

9. Divine Truth is infinite

10. The importance of examining the world’s definition of God

11. Different teachings about God’s Location and Nature

11.1. World views about God being punishing

11.2. Do God’s Laws punish?

11.2.1. An example of gravity and aerodynamics

11.2.2. Laws that operate on the human soul

11.2.3. God’s Laws are designed to teach us how to love

11.2.4. An example of getting an illness

12. Changing false belief systems

13. Different teachings about God’s Mercy and Wrath

14. Different teachings about God’s Perfect Creations

15. Emotional injuries impair our ability to identify illogical teachings about God

15.1. Barriers in our souls to truth and error

15.2. AJ’s personal experiences of identifying untruths taught about God

15.3. Receiving God’s Love with false beliefs about God

15.4. False beliefs about God enter us from our environment even if we’re not religious

16. False teachings about karma

17. False beliefs that God is absent and does not love us

18. Different teachings about God leading us into temptation and testing us

19. Kinesiology calibration of different spiritual teachings

20. Different teachings about God allowing bad things to happen to us

21. Conclusions

21.1. The world is full of contradictions about God

21.2. False beliefs are allowed to enter the soul because of fear in the soul

21.2.1. False beliefs about the rapture

21.3. We need God’s Truth and God’s Love to remove all fear-based beliefs

21.3.1. The real Lord’s Prayer

22. Closing words

Relationship With God - The World’s Definition Of God Outline

Resources

Other compilation books can be found at The Written Word (thewrittenword.ca)

1. Introduction

Jesus: How is everyone?

Participant: Good, excited.

Jesus: We thought actually with such a group that it would probably be better to have a bit of an interaction with you guys, in terms of questions that you would want to ask. We haven’t got any specific subject that we wanted to talk with you today about but we would love to answer any of the questions that you have.

Okay, fire away people. Everyone is shy. There's no point coming along and not wanting to say anything! Face your fear and go ahead. Good on you.

2. The emotional basis of Chronic Fatigue

Participant: Last time I was at the workshop I spoke to you about my Chronic Fatigue and my hook into needing people’s approval. Now I sometimes feel like I’m being physically attacked by spirits because I have days when I just deteriorate so dramatically and so quickly, and it’s scaring me. I’m confused what the hook is into them. What do they get from me?

Jesus: Okay, well let’s draw what’s happening for you. So here’s Elvira. Sorry about the dress, Elvira! If you had no emotional injuries at all, what would happen is you would have a nice smooth protective barrier around yourself (what some people call an aura). So no person would be able to hook into any emotion that you have and draw from you, and you wouldn’t be able to hook into anyone else’s emotion either or draw from them in that state, because you'd also be loving.

With no emotional injuries we would have a protective barrier all around us

Now, as soon as you have an emotional injury, then there’s a crack, or a hole in that aura or that field of protection around yourself. And the more emotional injuries we have, the more cracks there are into our self. So you can imagine there are these energy vortexes. And this is how they actually look to spirits, these energy vortexes that enter certain parts of our body through those cracks. And it doesn’t matter whether the person is in the spirit world or on Earth; if they are here on Earth next to you, they can also draw energy from you as a result of those cracks.

So what’s happening for yourself quite frequently now is that you're trying to see, “I’ve got something going on with this person on Earth and I’ve got something going on with that person on Earth.” And you are trying to address some of those things that you have got going on with the people on Earth.

Emotional injuries create holes in our protective barrier through which energy can be drawn from spirits or people on Earth

2.1. Spirits draw energy from us through our emotional injuries

Jesus: The problem is that there are all these spirits that surround you. These spirits also know every one of those cracks and they will attempt to draw your energy from you wherever they can. That’s their desire, which is all based around what they want out of the interaction. And your allowing of it is about what you want from the interaction or what you allow from the interaction. You see, a lot of times we don’t want something specifically, but we feel like we have to give it.

So for example something that has happened in your life a lot with women is that you feel like you’ve got to do things for them no matter what they’re demanding from you. So that’s one of the emotional holes if you like. So if I were a woman in the spirit world, I would see that hole and then I go, “All I’ve got to do is pressurise Elvira a bit and she’ll automatically allow me to draw from her emotionally.”

Participant: What emotion do they get from me? I don’t understand. That has always confused me about what it is that spirits can conceivably get.

Jesus: Well, one emotion that they get from you is your fear. In other words, they can project something at you, like be nasty towards you, and they feel you go afraid. And they like that. Because what that does, it gives them a feeling that they’re more powerful than you. It gives them a feeling that they’re in control of you.

So, some of the spirits who are around you are addicted to your fear. They like seeing you afraid. They like seeing you feel scared for your life, in fact. And if you think about the last few weeks in particular, you can feel some of that fear. When you start getting quite ill, you can almost feel that fear for your life kicking in as well. And that’s what they love to see happen to you. They love you being afraid for your life. It makes them feel powerful and in control of you and some of them laugh at that, and some of them are condescending towards that. Others are actually just quite vicious and they just like to have that feeling of power over you.

Participant: So I need to go into the fear of that?

Jesus: The fear that you might die. That is one of the fears they're playing upon. You have a number of other fears. Fears about embracing a life of desire. So, if you think back over your life, every time desire has come along, you’ve almost been in two minds. Or, if I could say it more like what it really is, you really have two feelings that are almost opposing each other. One is, “I would love to follow that desire.” The other is, “I’m scared as hell about following that desire and where that’s going to lead me.” And so what they do is they manipulate you through your fear.

So fear is a big part of what they’re doing with you. They cause you to become so afraid that you’re willing to give to them yourself almost, energy wise. You’re willing to give yourself to them just to prevent their rage towards you or their anger towards you.

2.1.1. Feeling our fear protects us from spirit influence

Mary: And it’s the resistance to feeling that fear that is allowing them to draw the energy from you. So you need to just soften into the fear, and just let yourself feel how terrified you are that they are going to attack you, and harm you or reject you heavily. A lot of the approval addiction is about just avoiding the horrible ostracism that you fear. If you can soften into the fear, then it feels scary, but you’ll still have your energy. It’s the resistance to the fear that’s causing the drain.

Jesus: You resist the actual fear emotion, which is something that you’ve done most of your life. You were taught how to do it from your childhood, and you’ve been doing it most of your life now. So it is a pattern that has been built up over your life. But as you start stepping into your fear, you’ll find spirits and others can actually hurt you less.

Most of us are afraid that with fear, if we step into our fear, people will be able to harm us more. So most of us think that we are going to get harmed more, we'll be more open and more vulnerable, and so we worry so much about that that we resist our fears. But the irony is that when you feel your fear, the hole that allows somebody else to control your fear gets patched up. So when you feel your own fear, the hole that allows somebody else to control your fear is no longer present in that moment. And so, in that moment you can no longer be influenced by the external person.

Feeling our fears patches up our emotional holes

In a lot of ways it’s about having a loyalty to the truth. Once we have this loyalty to the truth, fear does not become the dominant thing controlling our lives anymore. And what’s happening for yourself is that fear is quite a dominant part of control. And so that’s open, and so if anybody now wants to control you, all they need to do is tell you that, “You're a bad person, that you’ve done bad things in your life and you should be ashamed of yourself,” and a few other things like that. Or they can even be less blunt than that and say, “In this interaction you’re not being nice to me,” and all of a sudden you will feel like you’ve done the wrong thing and have to be nice.

So, because of that, they’re sort of manipulating the fear that you have of being disapproved of. They’re manipulating that through that opening and now they really have control. All they've got to do is make a few suggestions to you that, “You're bad, you’re this and you’re that,” and all of a sudden you’ll try harder, give more, which is what the problem is. This is what causes the chronic fatigue, the desire to give more and more and more and more to placate the fear that you can’t feel inside of yourself.

2.2. Processing spirits’ emotions

Participant: I’ve been like crying and shaking now since I started watching your videos. Have I been just doing capping emotions?

Jesus: Well the other problem you face, Elvira, and it’s going to take a little bit of time for you to work through this, is you also have a group of women spirits surrounding you who are very, very afraid. And they feel your fear and they commiserate with it. In other words, they feel like, “Don’t you go and feel your fear. We’ve got to try and get away from our fear, we’ve got to do whatever we can to help you avoid your fear,” and so forth. But a lot of times when you start processing, because of this willingness to feel other peoples’ emotions that you have quite strongly, you're allowing them to process through you. And as a result of that, they get to feel some of their fear through you and they get to feel some of their grief through you. And this is because at the moment it’s very hard for you to determine what the end of you is and what’s the beginning of another person. They almost feel at the moment like they’re you even. That’s how close they are to you. They almost feel like they are you. And so a lot of times you are very willing to feel their emotions, but also avoiding your own in that moment. So you’d be crying but actually… and to be frank many people are doing this still; they are crying but they are actually crying somebody else’s emotion or in commiseration with somebody else’s emotion. They are not actually crying their own life; they’re actually feeling about another person’s life.

2.3. Processing fear by living in truth

Mary: Can I add to what you’ve just said about processing fear, because I've put a lot of focus on that in the last few months? I've found that stepping into desire and taking action… not in the sense of, “Okay, I’m afraid of heights, I’m going to jump out of an aeroplane”, but instead firstly connecting to, “What is my desire? What do I feel the truth is in this situation? I’m going to stay true to that, and step into whatever this experience is.” And that is the time when I’ve been triggered and released the most fear. And I’ve had to leave an interaction sometimes and go and process.

Fear is the thing that limits our actions and desires. Even just focusing on, “I’m going to take a new action or I’m going to step into this desire,” can trigger our fear much more than just sitting and going, “Okay, I’m afraid of other people, I’ll just feel that.” If it’s not changing in my interactions with other people, I know I’m not releasing the fear, because immediately that I start releasing the fear of other people, my interactions with other people will change. But also my experience is when I step into more interactions with people, by first recognising, “What is my addiction? How am I going to challenge this?” and then step into the interaction, my fears have been challenged and released far more rapidly.

Participant: Would you mind giving me an example of something that you’ve done recently?

Mary: Sure. So I’ve got a lot of terror about spirits. And so I started running the mediumship team in the God’s Way of Love Organisation that we’ve just launched. And there are a number of people in that team who have been very spirit influenced in the past and very attacking as a result towards AJ and me. At the opening of the first meeting, I said, “Guys we need to talk about the fact that spirit influence can happen and how we're going to deal with it. How, as a team can we make sure that we don’t make this a venue for spirits to influence all of us into other interactions that aren’t authentic?” So we agreed that if a person is spirit influenced, we would give them some truth and ask them to leave and they could come back at a time when they weren’t so over-cloaked.

By the end of the first meeting, someone became very influenced by some spirits who are very violently opposed to myself and AJ, but specifically myself. I could feel my fear, and I thought, “If I don’t submit to this fear in my interaction with this person, I’m going to get resistive or I’m going to get angry with them and try and shut them down.” So because I wanted to stay in truth, and in a loving space with the whole group, I went, “I’m going to have to soften into this fear,” and I stood and shook and talked to the person about what I could feel was happening. We spoke at length and he couldn’t see what was happening. So eventually I had to ask him to leave, and he was very angry with me. But during the whole process, I remained connected to myself, because, this is the beautiful thing about when we soften into our fear, we stay in connection with ourselves. We know what is loving in that space, even if we might be shaking. And so I shook and asked him to leave and since then I feel less fear of those kinds of interactions. But I had to challenge it in the moment.

Jesus: For yourself, Elvira, anger is the result of the underlying fear not being felt. So whenever you feel frustrated or angry, it’s because you’re not allowing yourself to feel the underlying fear. Anger is your guide into what you’re avoiding. So you know straight away if at any time you feel just a moment or tinge even of frustration, whatever it’s about, it might even be about the fact that you’re feeling ill and you feel quite angry that you’re feeling sick, allow yourself to realise, “Actually this is covering over my fear about feeling sick.” And allow yourself to go into that fear and feel that fear instead of trying to avoid it through anger.

2.4. We can avoid fear of anger by placating others or creating illness

Jesus: So you’ll do usually one of two different things to avoid your fear. When somebody projects at you, “I want you to do what I want”, you’ll either do what they want, which is a way of avoiding your terror of them when you don’t do what they want, or you’ll feel quite ill. You’ll actually create more physical ailment within yourself as a way of excusing yourself from doing what they want. So the creation of the sickness is actually helping you avoid what they’re projecting at you, without actually having to say to them, “You’re actually wanting me to do something, and no, I’m not going to”. You can now say to them, “I’m sorry, but I can’t help you because I’m feeling sick and I really need to rest”. It’s a way of actually avoiding the confrontation emotion.

So the way the spirits and people around you manipulate you is they project the rage at you… or to be more honest, it’s the threat of rage toward you. So in other words, you’re very, very sensitive to people who potentially could become rageful with you. Most of the time, they don’t become rageful because you’re already doing what they want. So because you are already doing what they want, they’re not going to get into a rage with you. What you’re scared of, is stopping doing what they want and then they’ll get into rage with you. And the way to avoid that then is to actually have an illness, where you go, “I’m too sick to do what you want”. And it’s a great way of actually not having to confront their rage, because they at least might have some compassion for your sickness and therefore not be angry with you for not doing what they wanted you to do in the first place.

The threat of rage can cause us to do what others want

Now the original question you asked was about the co-dependency. In other words, what are you addicted to getting from them? Well firstly, you’re addicted to preventing their potential anger. How does it feel when somebody is angry with you?

Participant: My dad scared the crap out of me.

Jesus: Yeah. And how do you feel about yourself when they’re angry with you?

Participant: Helpless.

Jesus: Yep. And if you allow yourself to settle even further down, you’ll find actually there’s quite a few emotions in how you feel when they are angry with you. Terrible feelings inside of yourself about yourself. You almost blame yourself for another person’s anger with you.

Participant: Yeah, I wasn’t good enough to stop it.

Jesus: Yep. So in other words there’s an automatic threat from a person who is potentially in a rage with you, a person who has an underlying soul condition where they can easily get into a rage with you if you don’t give them what they want. If you think about your parents, that threat has come from them, quite strongly when you were little. This automatic threat of, “Unless you do what I want, then we’re going to have trouble here.” And after a while, the child learns, “I’ve just got to always do what they want and then I’ll avoid their rage. That’s how I avoid their rage.” So I just do, do, do, do and eventually exhaust myself doing to avoid their rage.

So what you’re addicted to is avoiding other people’s rage. Avoiding the emotion that comes from them to you, when you don’t do what they want. That’s what you are avoiding. And those emotions are all sorts of emotions, ranging from condescension right the way through to just bare violence. And you have a range of people around you like that, from people who will just be condescending towards you right the way through to somebody who will just be angry and really quite violent with you. And if you think back to your childhood again, you had the same pattern going on there.

So after a while we become so addicted to having a person not be angry with us that we’ll do almost anything they want in order to prevent them from being angry with us. And there’s my hole. My hole is actually, “I need to learn that it’s okay for the other person to be angry with me. I’m still not going to do what they want, even when they're angry with me, and even if they're condescending towards me. Even if they tell me that I’m a bitch or a bastard, even if they tell me that they're going to try to harm me, I’m still not going to do what they want.”

And in fact what happens with me, the more a person treats me that way, the less chance there is of me doing what they want. For yourself, the more they treat you that way, the more chance there is of you doing what they want. Do you see? There’s a big difference between those two states.

2.5. Coming to trust God through our emotional processing

Jesus: So the key is to allow yourself to see how frightened you are. In a way I'd say that the underlying causal emotion is partly about how much you can’t trust that God is going to protect you in an angry situation. And that is a really deep childhood feeling that you have that you weren’t protected in angry situations. So the key is to allow yourself to embrace that grief fully and let yourself fully feel that, “No, God’s not going to protect me, so I’ve got to come up with some alternative arrangement here.” And the alternative arrangement is, ‘I’ll do whatever they want’. That’s the alternative.

Mary: Would you say that’s really the block to Elvira processing her fear?

Jesus: Yes

Mary: Because at the moment you touch into your fear and you go, “No, no, no, no, I can’t do this, because I’m not going to be protected.” Whereas once you grieve this feeling that God’s not going to be there, you’ll have more faith and then when you hit your fear you’ll go, “It’s okay, I can just surrender into this fear.”

Jesus: And, “God will help me through the whole process. God will help me deal with this emotion.”

Participant: I’ve actually been surprised every time I go into something, somewhere in there is God even though I don’t trust him.

Jesus: Exactly!

Participant: And I’ve raged at God but I don’t know how to build that trust.

Jesus: Could I discuss with the whole group how to build trust in God? That would be a good thing to talk about I think. There are some simple and direct things you can do to slowly build your trust in God and get to know God better.

3. Getting to know God

Jesus: I feel that for many of you, you’re doing emotional work, which is great, but you’re forgetting the reason why we’re doing emotional work. It’s only so that we can connect to God better. That’s the only real reason.

Now, if inside of myself I don’t believe God really exists anyway, I don’t feel that God’s an entity, I don’t feel that God’s very trustworthy or I don’t feel that I can have any faith in God being good, then how am I ever going to want to deal with an emotion that’s preventing my relationship with God, when I already have all these blocks towards God anyway?

So what we need to do is we need to come to understand some basic ways in which we can get to know God better and come to trust Her. And for many of us, it’s because of the lack of trust in God and the lack of faith in God that when we hit a certain emotion that’s quite dark and deep within us we automatically stop. Because what else do we do when we are self reliant? When we are self reliant, we have this tendency to hit the emotion, we go as deep as our self reliance will allow us, but not deep enough to release the emotion. And as a result, because there’s this gap about how we feel about God dictating most of our life, we don’t actually go through into that really dark place that is going to rip the emotion out of us and it will be gone. So what happens is we get so deep, until self reliance kicks in and we go, “No I can’t do any more now. That’s it, now I’m frightened, now I’m terrified, now I can’t go further.” And we even say to ourselves, “I can’t do this, I can’t do this.” We tell ourselves these messages constantly that we can’t do it.

And so what we want to do is find a way in which to get to know God. And by the way for many of you guys who are struggling with your emotions, this next part is also really good. Because what I find in many of our discussions is a fellow will come up to me and say, “Look, I have a lot of trouble getting into my emotions”. And I go, “Well, actually it’s not really about getting into your emotions, it’s really about getting to know God and then, in the process you’ll get to feel some emotions.” The emotional side is really a subsequent result of your desire to get to know God. Not the other way round. And then I get asked, “Well, I don’t really believe God,” or, “I don’t really believe that God exists,” or, “How can I know?” And I’ll go through with you now the basis of how you can know.

Mary: In the last 6 months my focus has been about God and creating this relationship. That is the basis of this path, but I too neglected that for a long time because I was very caught up in who I was and not wanting to be that person and all these other issues and emotions, a lot about my family. And I never stopped and went, “This is about me connecting with God and getting to know who ‘me’ really is, whoever that might be.” And just stopping and focusing on that and exercising my desire to know and understand God brought me lots of different books and experiences, and it’s also really empowered me in this emotional process. I really want my emotions now because I really want God. And God isn’t like this religious figure that I had a lot of baggage about, such as God and religion being the one thing and being controlling and hypocritical. Stopping and feeling, “Who is God and how much do I want God?” has really helped me so much. So I feel it is such a beautiful topic to talk about and one that I am quite passionate about.

The other thing is that a lot of people have a lot of trust issues with AJ. He’s saying he's Jesus. That’s a pretty big deal and it triggers emotions for everyone on the planet, let’s face it. Whether we want to feel about that yet or not, it’s definitely there. And I was speaking to a group recently and I was saying that for myself, I also had a lot of issues with trust with AJ. And I also had a lot of issues with trusting what I felt was this other identity, who I am. Taking my focus to God and developing that relationship and trusting that God can teach me these things has streamlined not only my emotional processing, but this relationship with AJ. Because I’m not having to trust AJ, I’m not even having to trust myself – I’m having to trust what I feel, but beyond that I get to trust someone who really knows what he’s talking about. And that I feel for everyone on this path, it’s not about us, we’re here to teach it. But really please know it’s about God. It’s not even really about your emotions. Yes we’re emotional beings, but in the end it’s about God and it’s the best relationship ever. And that’s why we stand up here and just talk about all these different things; it is only in the hope that you might know God a little bit better. Because once you make that connection, you don’t need us anymore.

4. The three categories of truth

Jesus: So what we will do is we'll go through how to get to know God, in a really practical, down to earth, pragmatic way. Something that will make a lot of sense to you. Let’s focus firstly on the issue of truth. Now I don’t mean God’s Truth and I don’t mean your truth either. In this case what I am talking about is that there are basically three categories that we can put most things in when it comes to truth.

One category is, “I don’t believe that’s true”. Let’s call that category number one. I think of these categories as piles of pieces of paper that I've put together from different things that have happened in my life. So here’s pile number one, which is basically, “All the things I don’t know.” Now, of course that pile is pretty big, is it not? You think of all of the things that you could possibly know in the universe, and for the majority of us that pile is probably the largest pile of all three piles; all the things that we don’t know. Or we could say they’re the things we don’t believe and we don’t even know what we don’t believe at this point because it is just stuff that we have never learnt about.

Then there’s another pile. This pile is usually much smaller and this is, “All the things I think I know.” Now for many people that is still a large pile because often we have a very inflated viewpoint of what we know and so we have quite a large pile that we think should be in that category. And then there’s this third pile and at a lot of times at the beginning, and particular when it comes to what we know about God, this pile is almost non-existent. This is, “What I definitely know and feel as truth”.

Mary: So it’s like the ‘for sure’, the ‘maybe’ and the ‘no idea’ piles.

Jesus: Yes. So as Mary just suggested, you can think about all truth as piles of, “I’m sure”, “I think I’m sure” or, “Maybe”. For the last two thousand years of my life this is how I have approached everything. For everything I have ever done in terms of discovering truth, this has basically been my approach. I am basically aware that there’s a huge amount of things I don’t know, I’m also aware that there’s things I think I know but they might be true or they might not be.

Mary: So the ‘maybe’ pile is like a hypothesis?

Jesus: Yeah, it’s almost like a hypothetical theory. I’m testing it. Things in the maybe pile are the tests that I put in place about truth.

But then there’s this ‘for sure’ pile. One thing I discovered in the 1st century quite early was that there were things that I knew for sure, no matter what anybody else thought or said to me. I knew that when they were saying or thinking something that was in disharmony with what I felt to be true, then it was definitely wrong. One of the other things I learnt quite early was about my relationship with God; that there is a God who is an entity. That was something that I knew for sure quite early in my life in the 1st century. We will talk about why I knew that as we progress.

So you can think about this for every single truth that you could ever ask a question about. So for example, “Is there such a thing as the Law of Attraction?” Well, when we first hear about the Law of Attraction we go, “I’ve never heard of that”. So that is in the no idea pile. Then we start to experiment with it a bit and we get to the ‘maybe’ pile of, “I think there might be such a thing as this Law of Attraction. I seem to experiment with it a bit and how it works. I’ve got no idea really, but I experiment and before I know it things become real.” And then once things start to really gel, I go, “Wow this Law of Attraction is not about what everybody thinks, it’s not the mind being exercised to think about something and all of a sudden it comes, but rather it’s about desires and passions of the soul influencing the whole thing.” And once I start exercising my desire and passion of the soul all of a sudden things are attracted and I notice the attraction instantly. I’m going, “Wow, there’s a direct co-relation between what’s going on in my soul and what I am attracting right at this moment. That direct co-relation is happening.” And once I hit into that knowing, now I can put into my ‘for sure’ basket.

Now what happens for many of us when it comes to this process is that we have a lot of judgement of the process. So in other words, when you're asked a question, “Is this true or not?” most of us have an emotion of, “If I say I don’t know, they're going to think that I am an idiot. So it’s best for me to say, ‘I think I know that it is.’” Or even say that it is, when I’m not really sure. In other words, we start to falsify what we feel sure about inside of ourselves just for the sake of pleasing somebody else emotionally. That’s what we do. And most of us have gotten used to doing that so much that most of the time we try to live in the ‘maybe’ pile; in other words, where we think we know the truth and we’re quite definite about it. But actually if we’re really honest with ourselves we’re not really sure, we just think we’re sure. It’s really a ‘maybe’ inside of ourselves. But we’re not honest enough with ourselves because we’re worried about what everyone’s going to think if we don’t have a specific opinion.

And this relates a lot to childhood emotions regarding our parents. If we didn’t have their opinion, then automatically we were wrong. How many of your mums and your fathers allowed you having a completely different opinion to them without them in some way being upset with you? It’s a fairly rare parent that actually can do that and it’s a very good parent who can do that too, by the way. So there we are, they’re our three piles.

4.1. Being realistic about what we know for certain

Jesus: Now, how does this all apply to discovering God? Well the fact is that the majority of us don’t know anything about God when we begin.

Mary: Even after we’ve watched “Secrets of the Universe”, and we go, “Oh, wow!” We can then just want to put ourselves in the ‘for sure’ pile. But the truth is that we haven’t had that discovery for ourselves. We’ve just heard about it and gone, “I think there is something in this.”

Jesus: And we are fascinated by it, but that doesn’t make it real.

Mary: And we’ve got to stop kidding ourselves that it’s real. We’ve got to go, “No this is my personal relationship and I have to discover this.”

Jesus: So we need to learn to be very truthful about everything including God. And to be frank, at the moment for most of the audience, there are a lot of things you think are maybe true about God, but as yet they are not certainties.

Now let’s look at what you raised Elvira, trust in God. If God was a certainty and I knew for certain that God was loving all the time and I knew for certain that all of God’s Laws were always loving and I knew for certain that God viewed me as a precious child who I could have a relationship with, if I knew those things for certain, do you think I would not ever trust God? Of course not! So the fact that I don’t trust Her means that I don’t know those things for certain. The proof is in our life. If we’re still being self reliant then we don’t know God for certain. And that’s okay. Don’t judge that. Just see it as the truth. “This is the truth of where I’m at right at the beginning. Where I am at right now is that I’ve got a very small ‘sure’ pile about God.”

Now to be frank some of us don’t even have a ‘sure’ pile about whether God exists or not at this point. And we're trying to follow the Divine Love Path without even feeling for certain that God exists. What’s the point of doing that? I might as well firstly go through a process of finding out whether God exists or not, surely?

Mary: And this is where a lot of guys say to their partners, “You’ve got to feel your emotions, got to feel your emotions, got to feel your emotions”.

Jesus: And he’s going, “What’s the point feeling my emotions? I don’t even believe there is a God yet”.

Mary: And they go, “It’s all about emotions”. And they miss that it’s about God.

Jesus: So a lot of times we find that the feminine side of the soul is there trying to bully the masculine side of the soul into feeling an emotion. But in reality, the masculine side of the soul is going to the feminine side of the soul, “Hang on a sec, do you even believe God exists yet?” And if she’s honest with herself, she goes, “No, I don’t really trust God yet, so I mustn’t really believe God exists or that God is loving.”

Mary: And the cool thing is that this is the most beautiful important process you’re going to go through in your whole soul’s existence. So it’s okay if at the beginning the ‘no idea’ pile is racked high and there is nothing in the ‘for sure’ pile.

Jesus: Don’t be scared of that.

Mary: Every time something moves across to the ‘for sure’ pile, it’s a precious moment in the history of your soul. Don’t try and fake it. Just let it happen. And let yourself be vulnerable with yourself and with God, like, “Hey, I don’t know you but I don’t know what’s going on. This is all a big jungle I'm in here. And I know there’s emotions that I think might be unloving but I’m not sure yet.” And allow this process that AJ is going to explain a bit more to happen, recognising that every time there’s just one more sheet of paper on the sure pile, it’s precious. You’ll never lose that and it's going to stay with you for the life of your entire soul, which goes on long beyond this earthly plane. It’s like a cool adventure. A lot of us feel really pressured, like, “Oh God, emotions, path, got to do it,” when really, if we see this as a voyage of discovery that we’re starting in the nursery of our soul, it’s pretty exciting.

Jesus: For me it’s an everlasting voyage. It’s not something that has a goal at the end of it, in the sense that I’m just getting closer to God, closer to God, closer to God of what I know for certain.

Mary: But there are still things in the ‘no idea’ pile.

Jesus: Yep. And there are a lot of things about God Herself that are still in that ‘no idea’ pile for me. The key is to not judge it. Now the things that are in that pile for me about God may be quite a lot less than the things in that pile for you about God. But the key is not judge where we are at either. We want to assist each other to come to see the truth. And we want to do it in such as way that is both logical and feeling at the same time, not just illogical but feeling, or logic only and no feeling. We want to do it in a way that embraces both. Because, it’s only when you feel the truth as certainty that it actually changes your life. That’s the only time. You can think anything; it’s not going to change your life until you feel it as a certainty.

5. How to discover the truth about God

Jesus: So now what we want to do is to focus on the truth about God. Because, if we think about it logically, God knows all truth. So it would make sense from a logical perspective that if there is a God, then that God would be the creator of all things, and as the creator of all things, would then know all truth. And it would then make sense that if I could have a personal relationship with that God, I will discover truth far more rapidly than I would using any other form of experimentation.

When most of us experiment, we use the scientific methods of experimenting, such as, “Okay, what I’m going to do is I'll set up an experiment to test whether an atom exists.” Now I might have to spend hundreds of thousands of dollars setting up this experiment to test whether an atom exists and how the atom exits. And I do a series of experiments and really what I’m trying to do is to prove how it doesn’t exist. So the scientific method is about proving the non-existence and then what’s left must be true. That’s often what happens.

5.1. Determining whether God exists

Jesus: Now to me, my focus is the opposite way of that. The first question I needed to resolve was whether God existed. Because if I resolved the God existence question, then it would make sense that if God exists I can now start discovering things about that God. And then hopefully if God exists, that I can also develop some kind of personal relationship with God and find out through that relationship all the other things that exist, whatever they might be.

So to me the question of the truth about God is the most important question that you could ever ask yourself or that you can ever discover. And my feelings now and from a long time ago are that all other questions you could ask almost have little significance without first answering this question.

But what you see most of us do emotionally is this. Most of us go, “Well I’ve had a religious upbringing or a painful experience, and so I want to believe there is no God before I begin. That’s what I want.” Because how many of us want to believe in a God who is fear inspiring, who punishes people, who torments you in hell fire for the rest of your life and you’re never going to get to heaven if you do one thing wrong? And who defines what’s right and wrong anyway? So it all seems quite confusing, and in the end I go, “I'd just rather prefer to believe that God as an entity doesn’t exist.”

And you can see how in the New Age movement, many then go into this feeling that God’s an energy and not an entity. It helps get away from a lot of things because if God was an entity and we see all these unloving things happening around us, we go, “Well, God mustn't be very nice.” We can’t accept that God isn’t very nice, so, “Let’s accept that God is an energy instead. In other words, that God is an uncaring, unfeeling power house.” That’s what many of us would prefer God to be as well. And we get away with a lot of emotions that way. We get to deny a lot of emotions about resolving questions about God that way.

So, once we start to focus on this question about whether God exists, all of the piles are all in ‘no idea’ pile. We’ve basically just got no idea. When somebody says, “Well, what’s God look like?” “I’ve got no idea.” When somebody says, “What does God feel like?” “I’ve got no idea either. I don’t even know whether God has feelings.” “Well, did God create everything?” “I’ve got no idea.” “Is God real?” “I don’t really know. I’ve never felt God, so I don’t know whether God’s real or not.” So the truth is that when we begin in this process of discovery of God, we’ve really got no idea about most of it.

Mary: Even if someone’s up here going, “'No God is good, God is an entity, God loves you, it’s all going to good,” you still don’t feel it in your heart. You go, “I don’t know.”

Jesus: I can get up here and say, “Look, I’ve felt God and met God and everything else”, but it’s really immaterial to you if you think about it because you haven’t felt God or met God in the same way. So you’re just going on my statement. And what’s the point of that? That’s not a personal experience where you know inside of your own heart for sure the truth. So while it might sound inspiring and might sound beautiful what I describe, you still can’t really trust it until you go through some kind of personal experience about the whole thing. Does everyone get that? The personal experience has to be gone through rather than just trusting what anybody else says to you about any subject, but in particular about the subject of God.

So what would you do now? What would you do given that almost every question you ask is in the ‘no idea’ pile about God? What would be your next course of action knowing that?

Participant: To ask questions.

Jesus: To ask questions would be your next course of action, wouldn’t it?

5.2. Determining whether God is good or bad

Mary: So that immediately puts some things in the ‘test’, or ‘not sure’, pile, doesn’t it? “I’ll ask this guy Jesus, he reckons God’s good.”

Jesus: “I’ve got no idea whether God’s good. In fact if I’m really honest with myself, if God does exist and if God's good, then why the hell do we have so much badness on the planet? To me that is an indication that God is bad, actually, not that God’s good.” So my first hypothesis might be, “God is bad, God is punishing.”

And there’s a whole group of consequent feelings that we’ll have about that. So I have a whole list of things that I think are true. And I need to be honest with myself about this for this whole process to work. As soon as I get dishonest with myself, I’m going to get away from this process actually having any benefit to me. So I need to be honest with myself.

My feeling is that, “God is bad because there are 50 million children who die pretty much every day on this planet. 50 million children under five years of age die every day on this planet. Now if God cared about anything surely God would care about those children? So to me those children dying straight away means that God is bad, if God exists that is.” And I need to be truthful about what I feel within myself.

My mother has been in a few different religions in her life. The whole point about being in a religion is to worship God, is it not? In most cases that’s what people think. But my mum still hasn’t resolved the question whether God is good or not. In fact she still has a feeling in herself that God is bad. Would you go to church every week with that feeling? To be frank, there are millions of people on this planet who go to church every week with the feeling that God is bad. And they still go to church every week. Now, it’s a very important question to resolve, isn’t it?

So “God is bad, God is punishing,” they’re the things I think I know about God. So I start testing it. How can I test the feeling that God is bad? On one hand I’ve got all this evidence that children die every day for no reason. And parents hurt children; you see that happening all the time.

Mary: “My parents hurt me, where was God?”

Jesus: “My parents hurt me, where was God in that process?” Or, “I often screamed to God to not get hurt and I still got hurt.”

Can you feel the energy in the room?

Mary: Everyone’s like, “Wow I never thought we’re going to go to this place in this talk!”

Jesus: Can you see that many of us are not honest that we have some of those feelings in us? You’ve now got many spirits who feel that what I have just stated is true - that God is bad. Their energy is affecting yours and connecting with yours and before you know it the energy in the room goes really dark and gloomy about God. But we need to be honest. But we need to have more of an investigative nature with it. So at this point what a lot of people would do is say, “God is bad, God is punishing, I’ve got the proof. That’s it, I don’t want to know anything more.” Now the problem with that is that if God does exist, God would therefore be infinite and if God is infinite then maybe what we know about God is finite. And maybe my perspective that God is bad has some problems associated with it.

Mary: So in this process I have to recognise that I don’t know everything yet and I need to be willing to ask questions. I have to go, “Okay, this is evidence I’ve got and it feels really crappy. I’d like to hold onto this belief, but what else is in my world? The sun just set; that was very beautiful. I even felt a bit moved to tears. It felt like a gift given to me. Where did that come from? If God’s bad and God created everything, where did the sunset come from?”

Jesus: And then a butterfly goes past us. A really colourful one that just sits on a limb of a tree or on a flower next to us and we’re just struck by the beauty of it and the delicacy of it. And we just go all of a sudden go, “Wow, I’m thinking God’s bad but if God exists, God also created the butterfly, and I’m finding that quite beautiful. And the sunset is beautiful too.” And I look at my wife’s body and I go, “That’s pretty beautiful. I find that really beautiful and attractive too. There’s all this beauty around me that I’m starting to see.” We need to be honest; there is all this beauty around us, isn’t there?

So in amongst the world of chaos, and in particular when it comes to natural things, we see huge amounts of beauty. Where do you want to go when you go on a holiday? Do you want to go to middle of London where all the smoke stacks are going up with all of the pollution, or even better Tokyo on the wharf where there’s all this pollution everywhere and you need a gas mask to breathe? Is that where you’d like to go for a holiday? No. Where do we want to go to? We go up into the mountains or down by the sea or some place with a lot of natural beauty, because we feel attracted to that beauty.

So we go, “Okay, I feel that God is a punishing God because I look at all these bad things that are happening.” But then there’s a bit of a conundrum now, isn’t there? “On one hand God is a punishing God or God’s bad because all these bad things happening, but on the other hand I see these good things that happen every day and what am I attracted to? I’m attracted to a lot of those good things happening. A lot of it is in nature. A lot of it is not manmade but rather nature that I’m attracted to here.” And I’m going, “Well okay, if it’s the same God then how does that work? There all these children dying but at the same time there’s all these beautiful things happening, including children being born.” Now we're starting to scratch our head a bit. Because we need to become open to the fact that maybe we don’t know the truth about God yet, even though we do think God is bad. And we need to investigate the fact that, “Alright God is bad and God is punishing, but now there’s another thing that I think I know about God, and that is God likes beauty.”

And in a way that’s almost a conundrum. Because on one hand you've got what you would think is quite evil happening and on the other hand what you think is quite beautiful is happening at the same time. And so then I start making up some theories about that. You know what kind of theories to come up with then? Many of you have come up with these theories.

Mary: “It’s about the balance”.

Jesus: “It’s about the balance. God’s about balance. There’s got to be some evil with some good. There’s got to be light and dark. There’s got to be male-female even.” They go there with that. We start trying to explain what God is. So we say, “Well God is bad and God likes beauty, so there needs to be good and evil for us to appreciate good.” And we start coming up with all those theories. And while that sounds all like it’s reflected in the universe in which we live, is it very logical? Like do you need bad in your life to appreciate the good times? Wouldn’t you prefer to have just one series of good times with no bad? Wouldn’t that be what you prefer? And then you’re saying that God created bad so that you can appreciate the good. But you spend most of your life avoiding the bad and embracing the good, don’t you? And so we start questioning even those things. And for myself, I keep either a written record of all this investigative process or at least an intellectual list, if you like, of the investigative process. That’s what I do with every single thing I do. I even do that now by the way.

Mary: So, let’s say we get to where we have, “Okay I feel God is bad and punishing but I also think he likes beauty.” Alright, so that’s a conundrum.

Jesus: I still don’t know either one of those for certain. Nothing is in the ‘certain’ pile yet.

5.3. Determining whether God is an entity or an energy

Mary: What other question can I ask that might resolve that for me? “So if there is a God, is God an entity? Can I connect to God?” Because surely that will help me resolve these things. So then I might start a new hypothesis. “So if there is a God, would God be an entity or an energy? How am I going to discover this?” How would you discover this?

Jesus: Now it is true that I can say that you are energy. Is that not true? You have energy. But could I then go, “You are only energy”? Is energy the only thing you are? Don’t you have more than energy? Don’t you have feelings and emotions? Don’t you have passions and desires? Don’t you have thoughts? And while all those things may consist of certain types of energy, they’re all very, very different for each person, aren’t they? So I’m starting to go, “Okay, this is very interesting too. What is this telling me about God?” And I can start writing down the things that I’m starting to discover now. Still the things that I think I know or that I am testing.

So I need to test, “Maybe God has energy, but God is not just energy.” Just like you have energy but you are not just energy. You are more than just a piece of energy, more than some atoms flying around, aren’t you? Because, for some reason when I walk past, your atoms don’t all of a sudden join onto my atoms. And my atoms look different to Mary’s atoms and I wonder what’s going on. Like, the coalescence of those atoms into a being looks very, very different and everyone says, “Oh yeah, that’s genetic.” But if we were just energy, I’d be walking past Mary and if I’ve got a lot of energy, you’d think that part of her body would join onto mine because we’re made of energy and energy can swap and be attracted to different things. So why is it that when I walk past Mary I don’t lose a part of my body in the process? Now don't you be rude about that. And then as I walk past, I still retain my sense of being, my sense of self. And she's still retained her sense of self. And I go, “Okay, we seem to have some kind of way of keeping our energy in a place that makes sense.” In other words, a way that joins the energy into being an entity that makes me, me. And Mary seems to have a way of keeping her energy together that makes her Mary. And she seems to be unique to many of you. Like Lena over there on the camera, she doesn't look much like Mary; aside from the fact that she's got the basic same features, as she’s female. But aside from that, there's quite a lot of difference between the two, in terms of character, nature, size, everything.

Mary: And I seem to be able to know that I'm different from Lena. And I get to know Lena and I can get to know me. And we have a sequential life that we can remember and recall and think about.

Jesus: And I know I've experienced my life and I know I haven't experienced what you've experienced, because that's being your life. And I don't walk past you, and I go, “Oh yeah, he or she has got that thought happening right now.” I don't then think it's my thought, because I can know the separation between those two thoughts and I can know the separation between the two actions.

And we can start applying all this; this opens me up to another investigation about God. What if God is an entity rather than an energy? What indications are there that God's an entity rather than an energy? What things in the universe would seem to support the proof that God is an entity? Does anyone have an idea what kind of things might support that God is an entity?

Participant: Us

Jesus: Well, yes. Aren't we the biggest proof? Like, the fact that you and I or Mary and I are seen to be separate in some way. And, probably less so for Mary and I, in the sense that because there are certain things happening that I can feel with Mary and I. But I know Mary and I are very, very different to any of you in the audience. When I say different, I don't mean bad. We have a feeling that we are different person. I don't walk past you and go, “Oh, all of a sudden I'm Igor! I've had Igor's life now and I've had Igor's experience.” I might be able to learn his experience and I might be able to see it in his soul, but I still know myself to be a different person than Igor.

Mary: And how do you do that?

Jesus: In terms of seeing or knowing?

Mary: No. How do you learn Igor's life? You have a relationship with Igor.

Jesus: I have a relationship with Igor! And I ask him questions. And later on actually, the more developed I become, I actually notice myself starting to actually see Igor's soul and feel what's happening in Igor's life and I can actually walk past Igor and actually tell him what's happening in his life. But I still know it's Igor's life. It's not mine. I can still feel that.

5.4. Determining if we can have a relationship with God

Mary: So we might learn about God or hypothesise that God might be an entity that we might learn to know through a relationship.

Jesus: Yeah. So what we do to discover that? To test that theory?

Participant: Start talking to God.

Jesus: Yeah. What would you do to test his theory with a person? You'd go up to the person and say, “Sit down, I want to see whether you're the same as I am.”

Mary: “Do you like chocolate?”

Jesus: “Do you like chocolate?”

Mary: “Yes.”

Jesus: “Yes.”

Mary: “Do you like broccoli?”

Jesus: “No. You like broccoli!” So we start seeing the differences, but then we even start talking about the emotion. So, the feelings we've had, the experiences we've had in our life. “Did you have this experience when you were a child?” “No. I did.” “What about that experience?” “No, I didn't have that but you did.” And so we start seeing ourselves as separate entities, but we're starting to enter a communicative relationship with the person, are we not? So if I were now experimenting with this in a sincere way I would go, “Okay, if God is an entity, it would make sense that I could talk to God. And it would make sense that somehow I can hear God even though I'm not really sure how that will occur.” Now I can experiment with all of that. I could take actions. What kind of experiments might I choose to do?

Participant: I was just going say that when you've got a relationship with the person and you say, “How are you?” you're not cut off from your emotions. There's a softness to actually receiving how they feel.

Jesus: Exactly!

Participant: So I remember when I was little, when I started talking to God I could actually feel, it feels so good, just the fact that there this interaction between me and this being. So it would feel like a warm, beautiful feeling that I was actually feeling connection with.

Jesus: Yeah. And so we can see this again from another hypothesis and that is, “When I interact with you, if I am blocked to any emotion whatsoever, then we just have an intellectual connection which we both walk away from feeling like...?”

Participant: Superficial and dry.

Jesus: Exactly! We don't feel fulfilled. We don't feel any sense of personal and emotional fulfilment in a relationship like that. So we can then go, “Okay, well perhaps God's the same. Perhaps God is similar to us in the sense that we can't have a fulfilling relationship if we try to just do it intellectually, we have to have feelings involved.” So I can experiment with that. I could start actually spending time by myself seeing whether I can feel God or feel God’s answers to me. So I can just experiment with that. I could talk to God and when I talk to God have a feeling that goes with it. So in other words it's not some bland thing anymore where I just intellectually say, “Hail Mary Mother of God. Hail Mary Mother of God” and so forth. Not like we were taught when we were younger. But now what I've got going on is a feeling with God. “If you exist I really feel like I want to know you as a feeling.”

Mary: So some of us might even start with, “You know what, God, I’ve really got the shits, you’re bad and that's my feeling.”

Jesus: “And that's my feeling. Now can you show me something firstly to prove to me that you're not bad? But also, I'm still going to talk with you because I still want to know whether I'm right or not”, because at this point I don't know whether I'm still right, do I? It's only when I'm sure that I'm going to know whether I'm right or not. And that's also going to be something that we feel as a truth with complete certainty within us. And by the way, once it gets into the ‘sure’ pile, you'll be life and death on the issue. In other words, you'd be willing to die for that particular truth, not out of anger or fear, but just because you know it's the truth and that's it. And nobody would be able to shake you in that place.

5.5. Determining if God cares for us

Participant: I've talked to God a lot, but I don't feel like I’ve been talked back to. So am I blocking God?

Jesus: Well see that's another question we need to put in the ‘not sure’ pile. So if I'm talking to God a lot and I'm not getting any answers, either God doesn't exist or I'm not hearing Her. It can only be one of the two things really, can't it? Now if I feel that there's proof enough around my universe to show to me that God must exist then the second option must be the truth; that I'm not hearing her. Why am I not hearing her? Then we start feeling, “Well all right, let’s go for the feelings side of things again.” When I'm talking with a person, if I'm just talking from my head to their head, I'm not really feeling them either, am I? Like, I sit down with a person and I've got to question them, “How do you feel about this? How you feel about that?” and even if I am questioning them, a lot of the times I'm not feeling it from them. I'm not feeling a rapport with them in any way. I'm not connecting.

Mary: Yeah. And if I'm also saying to them, “Yeah, I'm fine, I'm really good. I’ve got a bit of stuff going on but I feel great.”

Jesus: Which is not true.

Mary: If it was the worst week of my life, then are they going to really feel me? Because I'm not creating the openness there, am I? I'm not going, “I can hardly tell you how bad it's been.”

Jesus: And then this person goes, “I don't want to hear how Mary's been for the week. See you later.”

Participant: I just realised when you said that, I actually feel like why would God care if I've had a bad week?

Jesus: Okay. So the real feeling in Elvira at the moment is actually, “God doesn't care for me. How can God care for me? Why would God even want to care for me? Like, I'm just this little ant anyway. Like, how many billions of people are on the planet? Nearly 7 billion people on the planet at the moment and what you're telling me is that God actually wants to have a relationship with me?”

Mary: “How is that even possible?”

Jesus: “How is that even possible for a start? But secondly, if it is possible, I'm just this little ant. I'm nothing really.” Many of us have been taught we're nothing from our childhood, and so we feel like nothing, so God must see us as nothing too. So what we do is we put that in that ‘maybe’ pile. Be honest and put it in the ‘maybe’ pile. “I haven't yet tested the truth about it, but from my experience in my life that's what it seems. It seems that God can't care about me. That's what it seems like.”

So for many of us what we've been doing is we've been talking to God, talking to God, talking to God. But actually we have a lot of these emotions about God that we're not being honest about. Can you see that? Some of us have emotions that, “I don't know whether God exists.” Some of us have emotions that, “If God does exist, he doesn't care about me.” Or, “If God exists he's only a male.” How many of you ladies feel that? We have a lot of belief systems about God that seem to be true because of the life experience we've had. For yourself, Elvira, there is a definite feeling in you that, “God can't care about me. You look at my life. It doesn't feel like I’m being cared for by God in my life.”

Participant: And then I get all conflicted because I think, “Alright, I'm whinging to God, and okay I've got things to whinge about, but I'm not somewhere in a slum in India and I'm not hungry.”

Jesus: Yeah mum and dad pulled out that card early in your life, didn't they? They handed you the card, “You've got a whole plate of food in front of you, there's a lot of people in the world that don't have a whole plate of food in front, you eat it.” That's one of the cards that gets handed to us very early in life. In other words, “You're not allowed to have a bad feeling and you're not allowed to make your choice because I'm telling you other people have got it worse than you have.” And this is a very early card that most parents play on their children in order to manipulate them into doing what the parent wants. So while I agree that that has been an experience in your life, we're still not certain that that's how God is with people. But it is a feeling we have. Now, be honest with your feelings with God. God loves your honesty.

5.6. Experimenting with our relationship with God

Jesus: Now when you think about it, if we don't even know that we can test that. What we can do is we can say, “Alright, for a whole month I'm going to falsify every feeling that I have with God and see whether I can feel God in that process.” Now you could even experiment with that with your neighbour. So they say, “How are you?” and you say, “I'm fantastic,” so you falsify every feeling and see how good the interaction is. So you can experiment with a neighbour and find, “Yeah, that didn't work very well.” You might be in a relationship with someone or a friendship with somebody and every time they come and ask you how you feel you tell them the opposite of how you feel and see how that works. And then, the next month, do the opposite of that and ask yourself, “Well with that experiment did I feel connected or not?” You see we don't experiment enough, do we?

Mary: We get to this point where we go, “Yep, my childhood was bad, I went to church but I didn't get it, and I didn't really like the people there. And then bad stuff started happening in my life and then I felt guilty about feeling about that, so clearly God is bad and punishing.” And we end the experiment. Lots of people out there have definitely done that, haven't they? And we don't keep questioning, asking, “What do I know for sure?”

Jesus: So for yourself Elvira, often what you do is you have these feelings about God that you're almost afraid to have, like the feeling that, “Maybe God doesn't care about me. But I can't feel that feeling because that disconnects me.” But it's a feeling you have inside. So you need to feel that feeling inside.

Mary: Has anyone done the experiment where they just raged at God and felt like, “This is not fair! You've totally abandoned me and I don't want to do this anyway!” And then suddenly, “Oh, there's God”?

Jesus: “I can feel a bit of God's love coming. Oh, okay. So you do exist and you heard that one at least.”

Mary: “But you seem okay with that.”

Participant: I feel like if I tell the truth about my true emotions, people run away.

Jesus: Many do.

Participant: It's just like, “Oh, I do not want to know you. I do not want to connect with you,” and then I just feel rejected.

Jesus: Okay. So now the question we've got to ask is, “Is God like that?”

Participant: I feel like he is because I'm so angry at God.

Jesus: I agree. I agree you feel like He is. But can you see that there is a possibility, and this is why it's still in this ‘maybe’ pile, that you're only feeling like that because of your experience in your life, and you're actually imposing your experience of your life upon God? So this is another thing I'd write down, “Okay, at the moment I feel God just doesn't want to listen to any negative emotion I have.” So I write that down.

Mary: “I've got to be a good girl and then God will love me.”

Jesus: Yeah. “The only time God loves me is when I'm a good girl and I make sure everything is nice and fluffy and warm and lovely.”

Participant: How do you know how to do that if you don't even know what a good girl is?

Jesus: Exactly, that's another question that I need to resolve in this ‘maybe’ pile.

5.7. Embracing the process of asking questions about God

Jesus: Can you see how many questions we have? This is why most people don't embrace the process, because initially when we start opening this process up of being questioning, we've just got thousands of questions. And we look at the pile of questions and we go, “Gee whiz, how am I ever going to resolve that list of questions?” And so what we do? We get all those questions and we roll them all up, we put them to one side and say, “I'll get on with life and if one of those questions comes up at some point in the future I'll have a look at it.” That's what we do. But when you're dedicated to resolving these questions you'll find you'll get them resolved very, very rapidly.

Mary: And that's what I was going to say. Once we start this process of going, “Okay, maybe God's an entity and maybe it's the honesty and the emotional openness that creates the connection between me and God,” then things can move really rapidly.

Jesus: So I can now start being honest with God. “Look God, to be frank, I think you created a bit of a crap universe actually, and the laws that you've made are crap too, if they're laws at all. Because it feels to me like there's a lot of anarchy and no law. But if there are any laws at all why don't you give us a book or something?” Then some religious person comes along and says, “He gave you the Bible.” “What? The Bible's full of crap. I can't even read the Bible without it contradicting itself halfway through. And in the first half of the Bible it talks about God being a punishing God, which is exactly what I am saying - God is. So how can you say God's a loving God on one hand but a punishing God on the other hand? That doesn't make any sense to me. God's either one or the other, surely? Oh, hang on a sec. No we talked about this yin and yang thing didn't we? That's right, where evil and good have to co-exist. Is that what you're telling me? No, no, no. Okay, so you're telling me God's always good, but we've always got bad on the Earth. Now how did that all happen?” And we don't resolve those questions. If we're honest with ourselves, we actually get a list of very, very good questions we need to resolve.

Mary: And a lot of us have been told, “No, you just have to believe this. You just have to know that God exists. Can't you know that God is good? Come on! If you knew God, you would know God is good.” And there’s a lot of condescension and we're guilted into feeling that we can't have those feelings. “It makes me seem like I'm ungrateful and there's something obviously very wrong with me that I don't know that God is good.” And we get shamed into not exploring this whole beautiful process, which remember I said is the most important journey of your entire soul. It all gets shut down because we feel guilt. We feel ashamed or we feel like, “Oh, I'm not good enough. I'm just one in the back of the group. Everyone's crying and praying and I just kind of pretend that I'm there.”

Jesus: And then I have this situation happen where I asked mummy a series of questions of, “Mummy, if God's always good, then why do people die?” And you know what happened when many of you asked that question, if you were ever brave enough to ask a parent who is going to church? You get a little tap across the face sometimes or, “How dare you say God's bad.” And you get the anger-based response to shut you down, rather than it being an honest question that you need to ask. And so what happens with our questions about God is we're taught not to ask them. Can you see that? You think how much in your own life you've been taught not to ask questions that need to be asked about God.

Mary: Or you absorbed the feeling from your parents that you'll never resolve that, so just forget about it. You can't ever know.

Jesus: And many parents get upset because they personally have not resolved the question and they're just as confused and angry about the resolution of that question as you often are, or even more so. And so when you ask the question they just respond in rage. Like, “How dare you even ask that question?” Or they go down this track of trying to deny the process of even answering the question. Because many parents don't want to say, “Look darling, I've got no idea, but it's a wonderful question and perhaps we should investigate it more thoroughly.” Because many of us feel that these questions are unresolvable. And since they are unresolvable, what's the point of asking them? And so what we do is we close down this whole field of investigation about God. It all gets shut down. We investigate science, we investigate cultures, religious formats on Earth and we investigate religion, but we don't actually investigate God. Even when we investigate religion, we're not investigating God. Because we're investigating the religious interpretation of what God is. So, we're still shut down quite a lot from investigating God.

Participant: I just wanted to say, once you ask the question and you get an answer back, the first answer back feels really liberating. And it makes it really exciting to ask more questions.

Jesus: I agree.

Participant: And so the more you ask, if you have that real longing, it's like ...

Jesus: Wonderful!

Participant: Yeah. And it makes it easier to ask more questions.

Jesus: Yeah. It was Adele, wasn't it?

Participant: Yes.

Jesus: Yep. Now, Adele, I put to you though; the answers that come back could also be coming from an alternative source.

Participant: Yes. They could.

Jesus: So, now we've got this additional question. Was that wonderful answer I just got from God or was it just from a person in another dimension that I can't see that I think is God?

Participant: Yes. And you have to trust by asking more questions.

Jesus: Exactly! You've got to keep asking questions.

Mary: That is the beautiful thing. Everyone just goes, “Oh my gosh, there's too many questions.” Some of you feel like, “No way, I can't do this, there are so many questions.” But that's because there's no wonder in this process. If we just go into it going, “Okay, wow, I think I've made the discovery. I think something that's in the ‘maybe’ pile could be going over here to the ‘sure’ pile.” But I just have to keep asking questions, and then we can stay invigorated by this process. If get really fearful and I go, “No, I have to know now, I can't keep asking all this questions, it's taxing,” then we're going to get really tired. But the more you develop in the process, the more trust you have in it.

6. Truth is only certain once we have experienced it

Jesus: So every single truth that I've ever resolved personally, about God and the universe and all of those other things have been resolved through this process for me. But I need to say a bit about the ‘sure’ pile. It's not just what you feel and know as the Truth, because there is this other aspect to the truth actually entering you; and that is, it has to actually be an experience.

So in other words, I can postulate to you theoretically that we can walk through that brick wall there. That brick wall is made of atoms. My body is made of atoms. Is that not true? Well, that's another theory that I'm presenting to you. But if that's the case, and if we're made of matter, then it would make sense that if I had control over my matter, I could somehow align that matter and I could physically walk through that brick wall.

Mary: And you might be even able to explain all the science of that to us. So you could tell us exactly how you've discovered this new truth and it’s all going to work. And so you can stand up here for three hours and tell us how you are certain that you can walk through the wall.

Jesus: And then when I walk through that wall, now all of that fact, although being presented to you as fact becomes proven by the experience, does it not? And it's only by the experience that what we feel and know as truth really becomes truth. So there are many people on the planet and in the spirit world who think they know the truth, they think they feel the truth in a certain way, and yet they have not had the experience, and so therefore they cannot still say for certain.

Mary: So it's like being there up there going, “Yes I know the science for sure. I know that you’re atoms, the wall is atoms, and it’s possible to walk through it. I can explain it to you, it is a sure thing.” But they've never actually done it, so they haven't had the experience. And that's the difference. They can’t say it's in the ‘sure’ pile but unless they've done it.

Jesus: It's not in the ‘sure’ pile yet. Until you have personally done it, you will never have anything in the ‘sure’ pile. And it's very important that we're honest with ourselves that it's yet to personally happen. So I can talk to you about God till I'm blue in the face and I can tell you that God will give you Her Love if you long for Her Love and talk about how to long for Her Love and all those kind of things, but until that personally happens for you and you recognise it as the truth in the experience, it will never become a fact. And you can talk about it all you like to another person and it's still not a fact. And it's still never going to be a fact until you've had the personal experience of it happening to you. It's the same as with the Law of Attraction and all the other laws of God. Exactly the same principles apply.

Now instead of judging the other person's experience, because every experience has to be a personal experience, we just need to recognise, “Okay, I have yet to have that experience. And since I'm yet to have that experience, I can't say for certain whether that thing is true or not true.” However, I can also go through a whole set of experiences and understand everything that's happening about certain things and then I know for certain that thing is true. And I know for certain what is being said is true. And lot of the things that I'm presenting to yourself as truth can only be presented because I have personally had the experience of that truth. That's the only reason why I'm very definite about what I'm saying to you as truth. Many times you'll ask me a question and sometimes I'll go, “I don't know.”

A child put up her hand in a recent presentation and asked me, “Who created God?” And I said, “I don't know” because I've not personally had that experience of knowing that particular truth, so I can't answer that truth. And I actually said to her, “I don't know anybody else who knows that either.”

Mary: But you said, “It's a good question.”

Jesus: It's a wonderful question, that's still in the, “All the Things I don't know” box. And there are quite a lot of things in that box still.

7. Reasons why we don’t enjoy the discovery process

Jesus: What you'll find is that God has created this beautiful universe where there's so much in the ‘no idea’ pile that you'll spend a lot of your life enjoying the discovery of it. The only reason why we don't enjoy the discovery is that we were taught not to enjoy discovery by our parents.

Mary: And not to enjoy this state of, “I don't know.”

Jesus: Not to enjoy that state, but not only that, we were taught that if we didn't know something we were stupid, dumb, or an idiot. There is a lot of emotional attachment to us not knowing things. And then when we got to this ‘maybe’ phase and we started to experiment, by definition when you experiment you are going to make a mistake. How do parents feel about mistakes? Like, you’re a little child and you pick up a glass. But it's mum's precious glass and she's only got six of them. They got them when she got married and she is so attached to them because they were a special gift by somebody. And all of a sudden it gets fumbled and bang on the ground. And what happens? It was a mistake for me, but what happens? Now you get this barrage of very negative emotions from your mother. She might even scream at you and say, “Why did you do that?” and you get this terrible barrage of emotions.

Mary: And little you just goes, “Oh, I was just testing the theory.”

Jesus: So there is little you, who's down here, looking up at this ogre who's yelling and screaming at you. What do you do now? What have you just learnt about the mistake?

Mary: Don't test the theory unless you sure.

Jesus: You might just have been testing the theory, “Will the glass bounce?”

Mary: Or the theory, “I can use my hand like mum does?”

Jesus: Yeah. And yet as soon as we test a lot of these theories as a child we automatically get punished and therefore we become so afraid of even making mistakes. I put to you that many of you are very afraid of making mistakes in your life.

Mary: And the key for this whole process to work is that you have to have a vital ingredient. And it's the ingredient that will actually speed up your discoveries. Desire.

Jesus: And fear of making mistake doesn't help desire very much, does it? If you're so afraid that you're going to make a mistake in every move you make, how are you ever going to follow a desire you have?

Mary: And lots of people who have come to talks in the past have come and gone, “Wow, this is fascinating but, wow, what if this is a mistake?”

Jesus: “What if it's wrong?”

Mary: “What if it's wrong?” They have no trust in themselves. They could go, “Well if it's wrong then I'll just go back to the drawing board.” There's so much fear that shuts down this huge explorative process.

Jesus: Maybe it's still in your, ‘I don't know’ category. Or maybe it's in your, ‘No Idea’ category. Just the fear of the potentiality of making a mistake that can be judged by others and you'll feel that. And you'll go, “Wow, that's pretty big actually.” That can be so manipulative in terms of this process of experimenting. See, the beauty of what Mary and I are trying to create is that we're trying to have no strings attached to everything. So you start to learn that you can experiment without any form of punishment. In other words, you can on the one hand go, “Yeah, I can go along to the talk and listen,” and then three months later go, “I don't believe that.” And yet AJ still comes up and gives you a hug every time he sees you, or shakes your hand and doesn't treat you badly. So you know that even if you totally disagree with everything I'm saying to you, you're still not going to be ostracised or criticised by myself.

7.1. God created us to experiment

Jesus: And the reason why is, I feel God does not ostracise and criticise anybody who's in an experimenting state. She wants you to experiment in Her Universe. She created you to experiment.

Mary: If you look at a child, the most pristine form of our self, what are they doing? They're asking questions, they want to learn, they want to experiment. That's their way of doing. And it's not just an intellectual thing. They're doing it with their whole body all of the time, and their emotions and they're stepping right into that experience. And oops, they fell off the chair.

Jesus: And they're not even afraid. They fall off the chair, bash their head, got a great big lump coming up and the next moment, they're trying to get back on the chair again. They don't give up just because they've had a little bit of pain in the process. It's only when they were punished for the process that now they have huge amounts of resistance. Now, this is something we need to be aware of, that if there is a God, God is not going to punish you for experimenting in a universe that's full of experiments. So, God wants you to experiment with different things, and the key is to feel as you experiment. And if you feel while you experiment at this point you may find a ‘maybe’. So, you can see how almost all of our life is either in ‘I've got no idea’ or ‘maybe’ categories. And it's only when we know and feel the truth and we have the personal experience that it will become a solid fact.

Now, many people throughout all of your life have told you that there is this fact and there's this fact and there's this fact. You grew up actually reading history books where so-called facts that are not actually true were presented. They're just the accepted societal fact, but not actual fact. And then there's a whole series of facts about history for example that were never presented. There's all this truth that nobody has ever discovered about, for example the truth of our nation. How many of us get taught in our childhood at school about the genocide of the Aboriginal race in Tasmania, for example?

Mary: Or the stolen generation. They might teach that at school now but...

Jesus: How many of us were taught that when we were young? The reason why is that society has certain things they don't want to accept as facts, even when they did happen. Because there are a lot of emotions connected. So, while we keep everything we possibly can either in the ‘no idea’ or the ‘maybe’ piles, it's only through the knowing and feeling of the experience that it'll become sure. Now, a lot of people become what you call philosophisers, where they live in this area between ‘no idea’ and ‘maybe’, never wanting anything to become certain.

Mary: They love this area between ‘no idea’ and ‘maybe’. They create a glowing facade that this is a wonderful place to be.

Jesus: And it is a wonderful place to be, in a place of experiment.

Mary: But to stay there.

Jesus: But at some point, something must become known as a fact for you to actually embrace a happy life and for you to actually embrace knowledge. And in fact if that hadn't happened in your own history, many of you who flew here today for today's meeting would never have been able to fly. Because of somebody knowing and feeling and then experiencing the truth of flight, for example. That would never have occurred.

Mary: Because this whole process isn't one of indecision. It's not like, “Oh, so many questions. I don't know, I don't know. Oh, ask another question. I don't know.”

Jesus: And it's not a process of philosophising, where I'm just coming up with idea after idea after idea.

Mary: And I think, “That's a beautiful idea,” and I just think about the aspects of that idea.

Jesus: And I'm only just enjoying the discussion of it. But rather we want to at some point know for sure whether what we're discussing is true. Don't you? Don't you want some surety at some point about whether it being true or not.

Mary: So I can love this process but I really want this ‘sure’ pile. I want it a lot. And that's the desire that will pull me through it. When you harness this desire, and you go, “Actually, I think I want to try out what they're saying. I'm just going to just start with one.” And when you really desire it, watch how quickly you start to get answers or get more information. Things that you have might not have thought about God for 20 years in a really sincere way, and then you go, “No, I really want some more information on this.” You step into a whole other interaction and bam, someone you don't even know, on the bus, is going, “Have you thought about God?” And you’re like, “Wow, okay. I've attracted something else.” Or you pick up a book in the doctor's waiting room and go, “Wow, I'm feeling that more.” And suddenly you're in this process that was ignited by your desire for truth. But you had to have the true desire.

Jesus: You know the Wright Brothers, who came up with the first documented successful flying machine? The only difference between myself and them is that I've focused on the truth about God first, whereas they focused on the truth about flight first. But basically, we used exactly the same principles. Do you see that?

Mary: And you know the Wright Brothers weren't very intellectual about this whole flight thing. They used their brains, they were quite logical, but I bet they didn't sit back and go, “You know, maybe we should work on that plane.”

Jesus: There was a lot of feeling.

Desire and passion.

Mary: Desire. Passion. Emotionally engaged. When it crashed, they felt it.

Jesus: And not only that, whenever they read every book that said flight is not possible, did they go, “Yeah, we might as well give this up because they say flight is not possible.” Did they do that? No. And so whenever you read a book that says, “You should give up this investigation of God,” or, “God's not real,” that's not a reason to give up the investigation. It's just following somebody else's opinion.

So how does everyone feel about that process? Does it make logical sense to you?

Mary: Because that's the other thing. God is logical. With all of this emotional stuff, there is logic to what we say. We don't just say, “Just feel everything, no matter what, where ever you are. It's okay to bash up on your partner as well. You're angry, feel it.” No, there's a logical sequence to the way God has designed this whole process of connection. Even though we're in our emotion, there's always logic. And love is a very logical thing.

8. Using experimentation to discover other truths

Jesus: And you could even replace the word God for this process of discovery with the word love. So, what's the truth about love?

Mary: Love just puts up with everything?

Jesus: Love's painful, hey?

Mary: Yeah.

Jesus: Love hurts. All of us know that. Is that a truth? That's what we all think we know, but is that a truth?

8.1. The example of Jesus’ resurrection

Participant: I'm curious about the process of when you're resurrected. In that process you showed that there was no death, that there was an after-life and you returned. The witnesses of that experience were all of a sudden shown that it is possible.

Jesus: Yep.

Participant: And I want to know, would that have seeped into their soul as a ‘sure’.

Jesus: Yep.

Participant: Or did they write it off saying, “But that's the Son of God”?

Jesus: Well, they'd personally seen it.

Participant: So is that their experience or did they go, “That's the Son of God, that's Jesus and he's different”?

Mary: I can answer that.

Jesus: Mary was there.

Participant: I didn't know if you remembered that.

Mary: Yep. Well, I would say there was a surety in my soul that, “Wow, you're not dead. So there's something beyond this existence.” That was in my soul. But it didn't make me sure that after he was gone again I could still connect to him. So it didn't give me all the surety about the spirit world.

Jesus: The experience is not just even feeling it and seeing it. Rather it is, “It happened to me.”

Mary: Yes.

Participant: So that ‘sure’ pile is really....

Jesus: It's really small for most of us.

Participant: To have things there is a great accomplishment.

Mary: It is.

Jesus: Yeah, it is.

Mary: It's a precious, precious thing to put one thing in that pile. And even to have this ‘no idea’ pile go down and the ‘maybe’ pile come up is amazing. Most people in their earthly life do not even...

Jesus: …investigate it at all.

Mary: But from a heart space.

Jesus: My feelings are if you've got even one thing in this ‘sure’ pile, you're doing pretty well.

Participant: Well, that's just how I was feeling. It's like even if I’d seen that, my immediate thought would've been, “But he's different, he's closer to God.” I would write it off for myself as an excuse not to enter that. The curiosity would be, ”Can that be possible for me even now?”

Jesus: Don't forget that I had told them that it could happen for them. So, for three years prior to that happening, I had told all of them, including Mary the most, that this was what was happening for me and it can happen for them too.

Participant: But even in this day and age with us not physically being there we celebrate Easter and we go to church and we learn about Jesus and we don't go, “Can that be possible for me?”

Jesus: Yep.

Participant: Right now in this time, this individual soul.

Jesus: Exactly!

Participant: This returning and experiencing an afterlife.

8.2. Experimenting with Divine Truth teachings

Jesus: Yeah. And one of the reasons why myself and Mary and others returned was that we want to demonstrate to you the changes that occur throughout our life. So as you see our lives blossom, if I could use that term, you'll see the changes in us. The changes once we become at-one with God, you'll see that change happen again, and what we’ll be able to do after that point. And all of that will give you the personal faith that you can do it for yourself. Because we're saying to you, “You can.”

8.2.1. The example of Mary growing in love

Participant: Well, for me personally, seeing the shift in Mary from the very first DVD and over a year that I've been listening to her.

Mary: Thank gosh I've shifted from there.

Participant: But for me personally, you have been the biggest inspiration, having that desire for God. The softness in you, the vulnerability in you, the confidence. Every single aspect of your soul just keeps shining. Even when I just look at your face on the computer I feel more love from you. And that's how I know that on a soul level that there's always a progression and evolution of your soul.

Jesus: Exactly!

Mary: Thanks, Laura.

Jesus: And the interesting thing Laura too is that many of us have spent a lot of our time talking to people about the truths of what we're learning. And we don't yet really fully appreciate that one fact that you now appreciate with Mary. And that is, it's not been Mary talking about it that's necessarily convinced you anything, it's actually Mary changing that's caused conviction in you.

Participant: It's actually been your emotion when AJ is doing the talking. Like in the beginning, I would feel your embarrassment and your sense of, “What am I doing here? I don't know what to say,” always looking for reassurance.

Mary: Don't forget there was anger in there. “Stop talking about that.” There was a lot of yuckiness coming out of me.

Participant: And now, you have your place. I don't know if it's a sure thing, but definitely feels that way to me that you have your place in your expression. So it's just through that, that I've got more faith.

Mary: Thank you.

Jesus: Yep. And that's the beauty of this process of personal discovery. It doesn't matter what I say to Mary, Mary is not going to have a personal experience until she goes through the whole process. So, it's actually impossible for me to convince any of you the truth of what I'm saying. All I can do is put it together to you as firstly a theory, then hopefully through my own life and through people's lives who follow it, it gets demonstrated to you as more fact and as a demonstration to you. And then it's a choice inside of you whether you want to embrace that or not. And then when you decide to embrace that, you'll start to have personal sureties as you go through that process. We don't expect everybody to just drop everything and say. “Yes, that's true”, and off they go. That's not like that at all. And in fact, it's not ever been like that for both of us. So we would never expect that to be the same way for yourselves. This is the process that we've both had to actually go through with the discovery of every truth. And I'm still going through that process and Mary's still going through that process and every Celestial spirit we've talked to you about still goes through that exact same process. And eventually they become sure through the personal experience.

Mary: Yeah. And I really treasure when people are just vulnerable about where they're at. We've been wanting to talk about getting to know God for a while, but what's sparked this idea to do this talk today was that at Easter time we were sitting around a table with three or four other couples, and one of the guys was very anxious and he just quietly said to us, “Look, I can't get into my emotions. I feel like I'm just really stuck.” And both of us turned and said, “It's not about your emotions. This is about God”. And he was sitting with his wife and another couple who were going, “You've got to do emotions. This is about emotions. You're not doing them. This is not going to work.”

Jesus: “And you're the black sheep of our little group because you're not getting into your emotions,” that kind of thing.

Mary: But it was so beautiful, just his willingness to be vulnerable. And then ironically we started talking about God and explaining this process and he started to tear up. He felt a connection then to what we were discussing. And I just thought it was precious that he opened the room in his belief of, “Look, it's all in the ‘no idea’ pile for me. I don't get it.”

Jesus: And we ended up discussing quite a few things that were totally relevant for everyone. Just like wouldn't you agree this talk is pretty relevant for all of us? It's beautiful when we can just be vulnerable about where we're at. God loves that too.

Participant: It was interesting five days ago I was actually in my head about, “Oh, Law of Attraction is triggering this and that.” And then I just stopped and I just asked God what is it really about and all of a sudden I saw some flower turning towards the sun. And I just cried for an hour because it made me realise it's just about my heart longing and feeling it and receiving the nourishment from God.

Jesus: Yep. And it's those personal experiences that help solidify your faith. Until that point in time that you've had the personal experience where you have some surety, there's not going to be much faith there. And instead of punishing yourself about it, you say, “I just don't have any faith yet.” And that's another thing that's in this ‘maybe’ pile, “I don't understand faith yet.” And that's okay - I'm allowed to be in that place. God's not going to punish you for being in that place.

8.2.2. If there’s any doubt about truth, it’s still in the “maybe” category

Participant: When you first start to get a little bit of a knowing experience about a question, can that just continue to build through more experience? Because I'm just starting to wonder about how much of some of the things I've started to feel that I know would still be in the ‘maybe’ pile, just because of that wondering.

Mary: I feel like for me, Di, there's a mini step pile in the middle between the ‘maybe’ and the ‘sure’ piles, where I go, “Okay, it doesn't really feel like a theory any more. I kind of really feel it's true. It would take a lot to sway me from this now. I've got enough evidence; I had many experiences.” So it sits between the ‘maybe’ and ‘sure’ pile, but it's not quite sure.

Jesus: But when somebody criticises Mary for having that experience, then she goes into doubt. So that's proof that it's still really in the ‘maybe’ pile. You can have all the criticism in the world aimed at you, stuff coming at you from everybody on the planet, but once you've gone into the ‘sure’ category, from that moment on you don't sway. It's an interesting place because it's not a place of arrogance either. It's not a place of holding onto a belief just because you want to hold onto a belief. It's not like that at all. It's very different to that. It's a very humble place of knowing that you're definitely sure about this particular thing and nothing can sway you, but it's not because you're arrogant about it.

Mary: It almost feels to be like a quiet knowledge; it's a surety that no one can take away from me. You don't all have to agree with me, I don't have to shout it from the rooftops, but it's just something I carry with me always.

Jesus: And in fact I put to you that if you do get upset with somebody else about them attacking your surety, then you're not sure. You're just not sure yet. Because the truth is that once you're perfectly sure, you have a solid sense inside of yourself that is okay with attack from others.

9. What it is like to be at-one with God

Participant: Hi, AJ. My question is what is it like to be at-one with God?

9.1. Having no fear

Jesus: It's a very good question. It’s very hard to describe, but can we maybe give you some analogies that will help you understand. Firstly, at the moment, in course of a day, how many times do you act on a fear based thing? Where you're afraid of somebody’s opinion or where you're afraid of what they'll do to you if you do something wrong? Do you find yourself doing that quite frequently?

Participant: Not really.

Jesus: Not really. So, everything you do in a course of a day is totally what you want to do that day?

Participant: No. Not really.

Jesus: So, once you're at-one with God, everything you did today would be exactly only what you wanted to do today. However, it would also be harmonious with love of every single person and every single creature around you.

Mary: Including yourself.

Jesus: Including yourself. Today.

Participant: There's a lot of freedom there.

Jesus: Right.

Mary: It is; it's a very free state.

9.2. Loving others at all times

Jesus: It's a very free state. So you imagine that every single moment today all you've ever done was do exactly what you've desired but also, without having to try, you were automatically loving in every single thing you did. You didn't have to think about it, you were just automatically loving. So that's partly what it's like to be at-one with God.

Secondly, how many times in a course of a day, do you have a doubt about something? So you ask yourself a question and you don't really know the answer? Or you have doubts about your interactions with others where you go, “Oh, maybe I did the wrong thing there,” or, '”Maybe they did the wrong thing with me.” Well that never happens when you're at-one with God.

Even when someone is yelling at you, you still don't feel that it's the wrong thing. So you still love them even when they're yelling at you. You actually have a feeling inside of you of love for them while they're yelling at you. Imagine that. Normally what happens when somebody's yelling at us, what do we do? We start getting defensive, we start shutting down. We maybe get a little bitter. Some of us want to run away because we're afraid. Others want to stay there and fight. And for some of us we might even want to have a punch up. That's how we feel in terms of response. But none of those feelings will come to you at all. You won't need to try. It’ll just be automatic that none of those feelings come to you at all, with no trying at all. So you imagine you don't have to try to be loving, imagine that. Just that everything you did was automatically loving but you didn't have to try to do it. It was just all a smooth process where you just love anyway. What else can we describe there?

9.3. Feeling constantly loved by God

Mary: Well, the biggest thing is that you feel in this constant love connection with God. So you're feeling connected to God and this amazing love. And you're open to receiving it. You're not feeling unworthy; you're not feeling like, “Oh, it's too much. It's overwhelming,” or, “I don't deserve it'. You're just feeling love coming from God in a constant way.

Jesus: So in every single moment, you don't question that you're loved.

Mary: You know it.

Jesus: You know that you are.

Mary: You're having the experience.

Jesus: So because you know that you are, when somebody treats you in an unloving manner, you don't bite their head off. Because you know you're loved by God. No matter how they treat you, it's not going to make any difference to what you know in this relationship you have with God. So they could treat you angrily, sad, they could try to shame you, they could talk about your past and all these darkened things we did in our past, they could try and physically hurt you, but you'll still know that you're loved by God in that moment. And you don't need to defend it or anything like that. You just feel that love in you.

9.4. Feeling good about yourself

Jesus: So how many of us in a course of a day will look in a mirror and go, “I'm not that happy with my reflection. I wish I looked a bit different. I wish I were a bit taller, I wish I were a bit slimmer”, or whatever. You don't have any of those feelings either, ever. There's an automatic acceptance of everything that you are. And ironically, everything you are is the perfect person you could be anyway. So any weight you would have had by that stage, you would have lost. Any old age you have by that stage gets younger. All of these things happen. So all the things we're often critical of, for example the grey hair that appears, well that goes away. So you look in the mirror and you are the perfect example of what you can be. And so you're automatically not critical of anything that you see in the mirror either. So you imagine walking down the street, and you're not self-conscious at all. You're not worried about what anybody thinks of you.

Mary: You feel like you totally love everyone. Everyone in the room, “Oh yeah I can feel they've got this. They've got these emotions coming out of them, they're not really loving themselves or not really loving me even, but I just love them so much.”

9.5. Speaking the truth at all times

Jesus: Now one thing that's really challenging is another aspect. And this is, you will be truthful with everybody at every moment without fear. And you find that a little difficult at the moment. So, you imagine walking along the street, and because you just have a feeling, you know how sometimes you're walking along a street and another person looks at you and you look at them, and there's this sort of connection going on, and there's some reason why you need to talk but you don't really know, but because of different emotions we have we don't talk to them. We go, “Oh, sorry, don't look at them,” and you walk past. Well those events, you don't do that anymore. You just go, “Howdy, how are you?” And if they open up in that process, you will engage automatically. You're not questioning their response to your love anymore.

9.6. Being completely God reliant

Mary: And you're in a state of total trust of God's laws. Trusting that God will care for you.

Jesus: So you're not scared for your life, for your food, for your clothing, for your shelter, your existence. You don't plan ahead anymore. So you know how when we want to go overseas, what do we do? We get all these brochures; put them all over the floor or on the table. We start analysing would this be good, would that be good, what's my comfort levels and what do I need and all of these kinds of things? Very few of us just go, “I'm going tomorrow without a plan.”

Mary: “I've got the desire, let's go.”

Jesus: And unfortunately, with the life we have today, you need a passport, which means you have to plan something. But in the future when you're at-one with God, you won't even need a passport. Nobody can give you a passport, you can go everywhere on the planet where you want to. So how can anyone give you a passport? You won't need a passport. So you'll just go, “I feel like going to Tanzania today,” and you're there. Because that was your desire and you'll go there, for sure. As soon as you have a desire you'll act upon it.

So you'll be walking along the street and there's someone you're really attracted to, and if you're single, you'll go right up to her and go, “I'm really attracted to you.” You might not touch her, but you’ll go, “I'm really attracted to you.” She goes, “What?” “I don't know. I can't explain it. I'm just really attracted to you.” But you won't feel bad about what you've just said or the action that it's caused in her either. You'll just be truthful and honest in that interaction.

9.7. Feeling others’ emotions

Jesus: Then another thing that will happen is you'll go up to a person and you can feel they have a certain injury. And their injury is that they'll do anything for you if you ask them.

Mary: Whether they wanted to or not.

Jesus: Whether they wanted to or not. And you go, “I can feel that injury. I do not want to ask this person anything.”

Mary: Why would you do that?

Participant: To allow them to feel the emotion.

Jesus: Not just to allow them to feel the emotion.

Mary: Because my asking them would be helping them stay in an addiction. So I wouldn't.

Jesus: So I wouldn't do it.

Mary: I wouldn't want to support anyone in their addiction in things that I know that harm them, that cause them to not love themselves. I just couldn't do it.

Jesus: I just can't do it anymore. So I can't manipulate anybody into doing what I want them to do anymore. It's just automatically out of the question for me to do that. That's what happens when we become at-one with God. We don't manipulate people through their emotional injuries anymore.

Mary: At the moment, most of us do that a lot of the time.

Jesus: So you imagine. You're the guy in the house and you've worked all the day. The lady of the house stayed at home all day. You come home and there's no meal made. In that space, what would you do? You would automatically make the meal. You wouldn't even ask her to make the meal and you wouldn't imply to her that she's been lazy all day and, “Why hasn't she got off her big backside to do the meal?” You would never say those things because the feeling is not even in you to say it. The feeling in you is not even there. So these are all part of what it feels like to be at-one with God. Pretty nice place isn't it?

9.8. Discovering the truth about at-onement

Jesus: And that’s another thing we can experiment with, at-onement.

“Now AJ just said a whole series of things that he feels are the truth about the at-onement condition. How am I going to work out whether it is true or not?” It's the same process. “At the moment I've got no idea whether that's true. It sounds fantastic but I don't know whether it's true. It could be just somebody's pipe dream.” Quite often I'm accused of being an optimist or an idealist, or having a highly imaginative soul. And while that is true, these are actual experiences that Mary and I have had. But you don't have to believe that. You can start at this point of, “I don't know, I've got no idea.” Let’s see what happens in this process of growth towards God. See whether that kind of thing will happen or not.

Mary: Who feels like once they reach at-onement with God, who needs a pile anymore? Because the truth is it just keeps going. You just keep going in this process. You're ‘sure’ pile gets bigger, but you really want to look at why I don't know. You're like, “Doing this got me to this really great place, so I want to keep doing it.”

Jesus: Yeah. So you actually learnt that this process of discovery of truth, which is what we've tried to describe in a fairly basic rudimentary fashion, becomes part of your soul. In the case we raised it is about God, but actually this process is a process that you'll use in your everyday life with everything you ever come against. And you'll just use it automatically. It'll be what you do to discover everything. And just because you've become at-one with God, you won't stop.

Imagine if I became at-one with God and I went, “Alright, I'm at-one with God, now I'm happy as Larry,” as the saying goes. Although, I've never met a Larry who's been that happy, but anyway... But I'm very happy and if I just said, “Oh, that's as far as I'm going, that's all”, and I didn't have this pile of which I had no idea about still, I would never have become at-one with Mary. I would never have gone through the soul union state. And if we've never done that, you wouldn't even be watching us right now because we'd still be in the spirit world. Because we couldn't get here unless we got to that place.

So, everything that's ever happened to us in our lives that's been really fascinating and interesting and also enjoyable, and some of the things even that have been not that enjoyable recently, have all been the result of us taking this approach that we're willing to continue the process of discovery without judgement of ourselves or without judgement of another in that process. And if you can do that, you will find that your life will just grow and expand and grow and expand and it will be a continuous growth and expansion.

10. Being willing to make mistakes

Participant: I sort of realised why I stayed in self reliance - it's safer with the things I think I know.

Jesus: Yes.

Participant: I don't even want to know about the things I don't know.

Jesus: Yes. The example of Mary’s progression

Participant: Because I'll be made to feel stupid and I don't want to test because then I could make a mistake. And, I realised that desire was the key. So my question, Mary, is did you have to process the injuries, if you had any, around feeling stupid and making mistakes before you could do this, or did you just step into the desire?

Mary: Well, I think I built the desire, Joy. So I read about God, I thought about God a lot more. And I still had those fears of being humiliated, especially of making a big mistake. But the desire led me through. In the example I gave earlier to Elvira, when I was leading the mediumship team, I had a strong solid desire to stay loving. I didn't want to waver from that point. And because of that my fear got triggered and I came out the other end of it because I desired to be loving so much, I was willing to be humble in the process. And I feel it's the same in this journey. If I grow my desire, if my desire is strong enough, then I'll be willing to feel, “I've made a mistake, that feels yucky,” in the process. Would you add to that?

Jesus: I also feel though that Mary had to release some of her emotions in order to do that. You see, we have a lot of emotional hooks into both the ‘no idea’ and ‘maybe’ categories. And yes, one of the best things you can do is start addressing those emotional hooks that you have in them. So for example, just how often do you say to another person, “I've got no idea?”

Participant: I never used to say that at all.

Jesus: Exactly! There's an emotional resistance to you admitting that you've got no idea. Now obviously if you've got an emotional resistance to admitting it, then it's going to be very, very hard to actually examine everything that's in that pile, all of which you have no idea about. Who has an emotional hook into feeling we’re wrong or making a mistake? Most of us, don't we? It's very rare for a person in today's environment to not have a fear of making a mistake. Quite often, early days, I would say, “I would like and go and do this,” and Mary would say, “But we haven't got the funds to do that.” And I say to her, “That doesn't matter. Why is that a limitation?” It's only a limitation because of her fear that if we make a mistake, and we've spent a thousand dollars making that mistake, we're not going to get that thousand dollars back and then we'll be a thousand dollars poorer, and we'll have made the mistake with the thousand dollars as well. So we'd rather not do it. And I'd say to Mary quite frequently, “I've made a lot of very expensive soul based mistakes.”

Mary: AJ always says, “There's no price on your soul.”

Jesus: There's no price on my soul.

Mary: “If you learnt through the process, it wasn't wasted.”

Jesus: Yep. So let’s say you decide to move to another country and then 3 months later you decide, “I've got to move back.” I don't view that as a mistake. Now, you might have spent $50,000 or $100,000 doing that move, and I still wouldn't view it as a mistake. And if you have an investigative process going on, nothing is ever a mistake really in the process.

Mary: I guess if you think about it, how much money have you guys spent on spiritual growth and personal development over the years?

Jesus: All the courses you did and all the religions you've donated to and all of that? If you added all that up, how much would that be? It would be a fairly significant. For some of you, it's probably in the hundreds of thousands of dollars, over the years. It all adds up.

Mary: But if at the end of it, you get one thing in this ‘sure’ pile, was it worth it?

Participant: Yes.

Jesus: Of course it's worth it.

Participant: What happens if you don't get anything in that ‘sure’ pile?

Jesus: Well, it was still worth it because now you know what's in the ‘no idea’ and ‘maybe’ piles. In other words, we often in that process discover what is not true for certain. So I go along to some kind of religious format or New Age thing and we start dealing with crystals and they start talking about the Law of Attraction and they tell me, “I've just got to think my way into positive thoughts and when that happens my life will change instantly, and that's my Law of Attraction.” And I'm there thinking, thinking, thinking, thinking, thinking, thinking, thinking, thinking, thinking ...

Mary: Testing, testing, testing.

Jesus: Thinking, thinking. Five years later, there's still not much difference in my life, and I'm going, “Mm, maybe that doesn't work.” So that's something I can put in the ‘sure’ pile as, “I'm sure that doesn't work”. You're still getting some kind of answer. And that's really important because if you don't eliminate what doesn't work, a lot of times you'll never discover what does.

Mary: Yeah. And maybe that's the true answer to your question, Joy. Maybe I was a bit understating in the desire answer because really how I grew in two years before this really kicked in for me was humility. It was the ability to go, “Oh I might be stuffing up,” or, “I'm more willing to see what's really inside of me.” And that helped me step into this process more, growing the humility enough to go, “If I make a mistake, I'll put up my hand.” But I really wasn't there three years ago.

Participant: I think that's what the first two years were about.

Jesus: I actually, before I came to Earth this time, I've always enjoyed making mistakes. This time I've found it quite difficult because the projection of the world on you when you make a mistake is quite severe. In the last six years of my own progression I could probably name all my mistakes on one or two hands that I've made. But it's constantly getting flung at me. And, not only that, with the media stuff coming soon, you'll find that'll be their focus of attention - all of the mistakes that I've made. And if you worry about what other people view as your mistakes, you won't progress, honestly. But in the world we live in, there is such a hatred for mistake. It's like people hate it because they have so much internal fear about making mistakes.

So for example, many people go, “It would be a mistake to go along to one of those AJ lectures.” I've heard people say that to their friends that it'll be a mistake to go along. And I'm thinking how could it be a mistake? I don't even view such a thing as a mistake really, to be frank, but a mistake would be to do one thing and then it not work and then to do exactly the same thing and not work and then do exactly the same thing, and to do that 15 to 20 times and it still not work. Then the big mistake would be to do it again. That to me is a mistake. It is never a mistake to try something new that has some form of logic or something associated with it for certain. Why would that be a mistake?

Mary: And everyone goes, “It's all about trust. If it's perfect, then we can trust it.” I now feel that if someone came up and demonstrates humility by saying, “You know what, since breakfast, I've stuffed up in seven different ways.” I go, “Okay, well now I'm dealing with an honest person.” I can trust honesty a lot more than someone who presents this facade of, for example, “I've been a perfect mother. I've been a perfect daughter. I've been a perfect housewife.”

Jesus: “My Law of Attraction is going AWOL, you know, everything that happens in my life is pretty bad but I'm still perfect.”

Mary: So we view mistakes as untrustworthy. Whereas I feel a humble person owns their mistakes and I feel more trust for them.

Jesus: Yeah. So I feel actually that before Mary was quite rigid about mistakes, weren't you, babe?

Mary: And fear of humiliation.

Jesus: Fear of humiliation from mistakes.

Mary: Like Laura was saying, she could feel it in the first DVDs that I was terrified.

Jesus: Yep. And then even a fear of other people knowing your true state was something that Mary had to get over as well.

Mary: “I’m not loveable,” that was my feeling.

10.1. The example of AJ being truthful about his identity

Jesus: And I had to get over that too. When I first remembered all the details that I’ve been teaching you over the last three years, one of the feelings I went through, this terrible feeling that I had was, “Oh no, I've just got my life together and I've just got everything quite happy and now I'm going to say that I'm Jesus to people. How much is that going to stuff up my life?” And I had huge fear associated with that. And a huge fear everyone would just focus on my mistakes. And so for a period of time I decided it was better for me not to say anything at all. It's a bit hard for me not to say anything at all, as you realise, so I went through three months of that and that didn't work very well. I felt quite bad about myself in that place. And then I went through the place of, “Alright, I'll talk about the truth but when anybody asks me how I know, then I won’t say anything about that.” So then I tried that. I was just so afraid to just be me and be perceived as a person who's made mistakes that I actually wanted to be perfect before I spoke the truth. Many of you actually have this going on too. You want to be perfect before you actually speak the truth. But the problem was, if I did that I would never have met Mary, even now - and we met three years ago. I would never have even met her.

Mary: And for me, that's horrible. Not only would I have not met my soulmate but my whole soul progression wouldn't have begun. I would still be that angry, fearful, demanding; controlling girl I was three years ago.

Jesus: I only met Mary by embracing my desire to speak the truth, but also by speaking the truth about who I was.

Mary: And you had to be humble.

Jesus: Her own family had me in their living room because I was saying that I was Jesus, ironically. And if I had never said that, they wouldn't even have had me in their living room. That's the irony.

And this is what happens for most of us. We're so afraid of making mistakes that we want to present everything perfectly. We don't want to embrace this process of desire, not understanding that the next set of enjoyable things in our lives can't happen without firstly embracing this set of enjoyable things and growing from that experience. And this is what this view point of truth is all about. This is a growing experience. It's not something where somebody just tells you the truth, like AJ gets up here and tells you what he thinks the truth is. And everybody goes, “No worries. We all believe that,” and throws away their life in the process. That's not what happens. For majority of us, we have to go through the process, and to be frank, I feel all of us have to go through this experimental process with our own desire. Nobody else can make you do it, nobody else can force you into it, and nobody can manipulate you doing it even. It's something you need to embrace for yourself, if you want to continue growing in the universe that God's created for us to grow in.

Mary: And to me that's really beautiful and teaches me a lot about God. God wants me to know myself. God wants me to take responsibility for who I am. And the more I do that, the more I connect with God. That's really cool.

11. Closing Words

Jesus: So let’s have a break now for, shall we have half and hour or so? Then we'll answer another question. That question took a while!

The World’s Definition of God: Part 1

1. Introduction

Jesus: When many people read the Padgett Messages or the Book of Truths, they have an emotional openness where they feel grief and sorrow automatically flow as they're reading the messages. It's quite a beautiful process if you fully allow it; you are actually receiving Divine Love while you're reading, and your soul is open. Everything is really wonderful in that place. Reading those kinds of books can cause a lot of growth.

However, as I pointed out, in your day-to-day life there will be events that connect you with emotions of anger, frustration, annoyance. Those emotions that revolve around anger or rage-based emotions are like a doorway, a guide to the fact that in your day-to-day life you're in resistance to love.

So we can actually get into a higher state by reading the Padgett Messages and reading the Book of Truths. We can be open – crying, letting ourselves feel the emotions. All of that's fantastic and don't give it up; I've read them myself fifteen times and every time I read them I have that response. But don't go into a place in your day-to-day life of then resisting the fact that you have all these addictions in play. The addictions are still there, present in your day-to-day life. Whenever you feel anger, frustration, annoyance and so forth, you're yet to release those addictions.

So do the things that make you feel open to God, don't stop doing them, but you also need to embrace some work on dealing with and recognising the addictions that drive this other frustration – anger, annoyance, and similar feelings that you have. Let yourself find them. If you don't find them, you'll receive Divine Love to a certain point, but you will not receive any more. You'll get enough Divine Love to a degree, and then you will stagnate.

I've known people who have read the Padgett Messages every single day for 30 years, but for the last 28 or 29 of those years they've never received Divine Love because in their day-to-day life they're not looking at their addictions and resistance. That's what they're doing, and we've got to be quite honest with ourselves if we're going to do that. We all get into stagnation at some point, and when we're in stagnation we've got to realise, "Wow, this is me and my addiction." If we can do that, it's very, very positive.

Okay, let's focus on the discussion at hand. The relationship with God is the series of talks that myself and Mary are wanting to talk about. There's a number of talks we want to give in this series, and this particular one we want to talk about today is The World’s Definition of God.

Now if I can clarify what we're going to talk about in this particular discussion. First, we're not going to talk about whether God exists or not. That's a completely different discussion, which we'd love to have at some point with you. We're not going to discuss things like the different belief systems on the Earth about God, ranging from there is no God, to God is dead, to God doesn't care, right the way through to there is a God who cares and loves you. I'll be referring to those things, but I'm not going to discuss every one of those subjects in detail because other talks that we give on this subject of relationship with God will address those issues.

We are not going to look at all of the contradictions in the holy books, because unfortunately the reality is that many of the so called holy books contain many contradictions within each of their books. We're going to look at some of the contradictions that refer to God, but not the contradictions that are there about other subjects, and there are literally hundreds of subjects on which these holy books contradict themselves. So we're not going to discuss that. We are however going to refer to a degree to whether we can trust the holy books, the Bible, the Quran and other books like that as being God's Word.

1.1. Holy books that falsely portray God cannot be relied upon as God’s Word

Jesus: One of the primary things I would like to state at the outset is this: If a book does not accurately describe God's True Nature, then my suggestion to you is that book cannot be trusted as being God's Word. Myself and Mary receive many emails in the course of a day, often coming from people whom you would call religious, who are upset about my claims and Mary's claims and also upset with us about different aspects about God. They often send me quite derogatory emails saying that they wish to debate with me, using the Bible, whether what I am saying can be the truth.

I put to you and everybody who presents that to me that if you wish to debate with me about a book that can be proven to be illogical and is misrepresentative of the very God you're wanting to debate with me about, then relying on that book as a source of information is flawed from the outset in its logic. It's pointless for me to engage with any person who is not open to the irregularities, misrepresentations, and complete contradictions that are contained within a book that they're trying to argue with.

So it's pointless having a discussion about the Bible and whether the Bible says that I, Jesus, could be standing in front of you on Earth or not, when that exact same Bible presents a God that is totally not the God I know. It's a totally different God, and I suggest a God that doesn't actually exist, that is presented by many of these books.

There are many truths contained in the holy books. I'm not saying there is no truth in these books; however, I am saying that these books cannot be relied upon as the Word of God because they do not accurately present God. It's a very basic statement that I am making. If a book does not accurately present God, then it cannot be relied upon as being God's Word. Simple as that. And if it cannot be relied upon as being God's Word, then how can we use it in our logical discussion about the truth of the universe or the truth about God? It's very flawed logical reasoning to do so.

1.2. Emotions that children have towards their parents are imposed upon God

Jesus: That being said, I've bought a Bible along with me so we can talk about some of the different things in it about God. Before we do, I want to raise with you one primary thing that is important to realise with regard to every book that's ever been written about God and it's this: The emotions that children have towards their parents are imposed upon "God."

The reason we’re able to accept what a book like the Bible says about God is because it describes a parent that is not very different to our own. Since it describes a parent that is not very different to our own parent, we can accept that this must be the truth about God. And I put to you, that is not the case. God is better than any person on Earth.

The Bible portrays a genocidal maniac as God (Laughter). If you add up all the people the Bible says God destroyed, God murdered over 2,400,000 people. That does not include the ones that don't have numbers. For instance the Bible says God destroyed the people in Noah's day, but it doesn't give how many. It says he wiped out all the creatures, all the animals, and all the humans aside from Noah and his family. Now that's genocide, and if God chose to do that then God is a genocidal maniac. But even with that, it doesn't say how many people died. If you just record all the things in the Bible that say how many people died, God murdered over 2,400,000 people.

Now if a ruler on this planet murdered 2,400,000 people because those people would not follow his rules, what would you call him? A dictator, would you not? And I suggest to you God is not a dictator. So the Bible portrays a god that does not exist. It does portray many parental emotions that do exist, unfortunately, but not in God. Unfortunately they exist in the world – and that becomes the world’s definition of God. That's what's actually happening. The Bible portrays a God who is selfish, petty, unforgiving, unmerciful and unloving, and I'm going to show that to you today.

This is one of the reasons there is so much confusion on the Earth about God. Even the so-called holy books that are meant to portray God accurately and are meant to be God's Word portray a God that doesn't exist. They portray a person who is worse than the average person on Earth in their emotional state, and I'm going to show you that in this discussion.

1.3. The world’s definition of God arises from holy books

Mary: I just have a question, babe. We've all been coming along and listening to you for however long we all have been. Why are you taking to us about the Bible today?

Jesus: Because the world’s definition of God is proclaimed to have come from many of these holy books like the Quran and the Bible, and since the world’s definition of God has come from them, we now must examine them to examine what kind of God these books portray.

Mary: So even if we've never picked up a Bible, this has been a part of our culture, our life, and our schooling?

Jesus: This has been a part of our culture and our life. I should have bought along another book I bought just recently called “The God Fallacy.” It’s a very good book, written by an atheist. I can't agree with his assumptions that God doesn't exist; however, a lot of the things he says in the book are definitely true. My suggestion is to have a look at that book. I forget the name of the writer. I am in complete harmony with many atheists that I meet about religion and about religion’s definition of God, but I put to them that many of them are atheists because they are thinking that religion’s view of God is the correct view of God, and this is not a very logical assumption.

How can the religions that have come across the Earth over literally thousands of years, through which a lot of these books arrive, have accurately portrayed God when the majority of us have emotions as children towards our own parents that we're now seeing as God?

One other thing I'd like to clarify at the beginning of the discussion is that I actually love the Bible and I love the Quran, but I do not agree that they are God's Word. It becomes very evident when you start looking at the different things that are said about God that they cannot be God's Word. At the end of the day, a book that portrays God inaccurately can only be man's word.

However, there is a large degree of truth that you can find in the Bible and the Quran and many other holy books. The problem is sorting out the truth from the error. Although that may seem to be a problem, it's actually quite simple: If you base everything on love, you will soon see what's error. That's the way we can test everything – whether it's loving or not. So I'm going to present some verses that I've written down and present some ideas to you about what God is and why there is so much confusion about God.

Many of you have probably spent much of your life trying to discover what God is, and many of us in fact have given up the process of discovering what God is because it seems so convoluted. There seem to be so many varying opinions. So in the end we just give up, we finish up saying nobody knows. We'll just wait and see and we hope that when we pass, we'll be able to see. Then you start talking to some spirits and you realise that they don't see what God is either. So passing doesn't help in understanding God, and in fact many spirits are just as confused about God as we are here on Earth. Even though they realise there's no such thing as death, they still have just as much confusion about what God is.

2. Different perceptions of God in the world

Jesus: So let's start with some of these different perceptions that the world has, which I'd call contradictions.

2.1. New Age concepts

Jesus: First of all there are the New Age people, if I can call them that. I've been called a New Age person and I can't agree that I am a New Age person. Besides the fact that I am 2000 years old (Laughter), I can't agree with a lot of the philosophies. While I love the New Age movement in the sense that I feel it has opened up mankind to the possibility of spirit interaction and it's opened up mankind to a lot of very good concepts that the religions generally have shut down, the reality is also unfortunately that the New Age concept of God is perhaps its largest flaw.

What is the New Age concept of God? That "I am God," God is energy, God is the universe. Logically there are a lot of flaws already. What we're basically saying is that "I am equal to God" and that's equal to "I am the universe," so that means that I am the universe as well.

Do you feel like the universe at this point in time? (Laughter) Or do you feel like a person who exists in the universe at this point in time? Which one? You certainly don't feel like the universe, do you? So, I, God, and the universe are equal and are one. Well, that sounds very interesting. There are a few other things that are said to be at-one with God or one with God, but the reality obviously is that there is no logic in this, none whatsoever.

What I find outstanding on Earth is how totally illogical things can be presented and through the mind and the use of words, it can then be accepted as a logical possible argument on which to base the rest of your life. Don't you find that funny? That we're willing to go through this process of doing these mental gymnastics just in order to avoid the fact that we don't know the truth? We'd rather know the truth, even if it's a lie and call it the truth, than actually understand the truth. It would be far better to say I've got no idea about God than it would be to say I am equal to God and that's equal to the universe and, therefore, I'm saying I am the universe. Honestly, I feel that's definitely proven to be incorrect. I am existing in the universe, that is definitely correct. So that's the New Age movement.

2.2. The Bible’s concepts

Jesus: Now what does the Bible say about the same subject? I'll just read you from the book of Job. It says,

"One day the angels came to present themselves before God, and Satan also came with them."

Now if you can stand before somebody, what is that saying? They are an entity, aren't they? A being, someone whom you can be before. And it says,

"God said to Satan, ‘Very well then, everything he has is in your hands, but on the man himself do not lay a finger.’ Then Satan went out from the presence of the Lord.”

The Bible is saying that Satan talked to God. Therefore, God can hold a conversation. It's not just a force, or an energy. I'm not saying whether this is true or not at this point, but the Bible is saying that God is an entity and that God speaks in some manner. Let's not define it too closely, but obviously God is someone you can stand before, or there is a personage of God. It might not be a man like we are, but there is an entity, a person, a being that the Bible talks about as being God.

Now can you see straight away that there is a lot of confusion here. One movement is saying that I am God and you are God, and the other movement is saying no, no, no that's all wrong, the reality is that God is an entity or a being. We have quite substantial religious movements on the planet saying that God is a being; then there are other movements on the planet saying that God is totally the opposite – there's no such thing as a being of God, I am a part of God, all of us individually are fragments of God. So we have completely contradictory information about what God even is.

How can I connect to a god when I have no idea or even an intellectual concept that's accurate because I've been influenced by all these different forms? This New Age form originated generally in the Eastern philosophies. Now when I say the Eastern philosophies, I'm talking primarily about the Buddhist and Hindu philosophies about God. The biblical ones came from all the concept of God being a punishing father sort of figure, and these processes all came from there. How do I determine the reality? How do I know what the truth is, because we've got all this contradictory information?

It's no wonder the world is confused about God because we have all of this contradictive information, and it's so bad that the people who believe the biblical concept are totally willing to fight the people who believe the New Age belief. If there were love, would you be willing to fight somebody with a different belief than you have? But they do, they fight them, they'll go to war with them, there have been genocides and inquisitions as a result of different belief systems being imposed or forced upon another. Whole races of humans have been exterminated as a result, or I should say, the excuse for extermination of a whole range of races has been that they didn't have the right belief. Now that doesn't place too much confidence in us about any of the beliefs being true, does it, if we're honest about that?

2.3. The truth about God

Jesus: Here we have these two beliefs, now what is the truth? We can say what the truth is, but there's got to be a way to test it, doesn't there? There has to be a way to test it. So while we can say the truth, we do not expect any individual who hears the presentation to then assume that that is the truth. We're suggesting that they can test whether this is true or not through a process, and that process is independent of any holy book, of any religion, or of any mediator, which means that it has a higher degree of accuracy than any other possible process.

The truth is that God is an entity with characteristics and attributes, the greatest of which, as far as we know at this point, is love. Now I say "the greatest of which we know at this point" because nobody has discovered the full extent of God yet; therefore, we can only assume that the thing that seems to be the greatest attribute appears at this point to be love. We can only say that because it seems to be based on what we've discovered at this point.

Now I put to you another truth, and that is if God created the universe and God created all humanity on every planet, then God must be quite a powerful being. We often refer to the universe as infinite in nature; therefore God must be greater than the universe’s infinite nature for God to create such a universe. For me then, as a finite being, to discover God is going to take a process of time. I can't expect to just ask the question and get the answer without understanding the full extent of everything in-between. And that is a process that we need to engage.

So I put to anybody that you cannot fully describe God until you begin to engage the process God has designed for you to engage to get to know that God. That is the process of receiving Divine Love, the process of becoming born again. That process through its practice will enable you to discover more and more of God until you get to a point where you know for certain of God’s Existence and you know for certain many of God’s Characteristics and Attributes.

3. Scientifically determining the truth about God

Jesus: The world’s definition of God presents the biblical definition like an angry father, while the New Age definition is saying that God doesn't really exist, except we are all God or all a part of God, or the universe is God. Both of those world definitions of God, because of their nature, are impossible to accurately test.

The only definition of God that's going to turn out to be true is the definition of God that can be accurately tested in a scientific method that can be described. In other words there is a scientific method that can be described that will eventually enable you to connect to the truth about God.

This applies to all things in the universe. We can experiment with everything in the universe to find out its truth as long as we know the proper experiment, that's the key thing. We need to know the proper experiment in order to do so. And what I'm suggesting to you is experiments will eventually prove the biblical concepts of God and the New Age concepts of God to be untrue and the concept that God is an entity with attributes and characteristics to be true.

3.1. The Christian perspective that God punishes mankind for their sins

Mary: So, babe, there are a lot of Christians on the planet who would say that they are using that experiment and that they have evidence for the fact that there is an angry God because things happen that seemingly punish people for their sin.

Jesus: I would argue that that's incorrect. The Bible itself says that many people who are so-called wicked by the Bible's definition get away with all sorts of things. There are many people on the planet right now who've gotten away with blasphemy, gotten away with adultery, gotten away with murder, gotten away with fornication; these are all things condemned in the Bible, but lots and lots of people on Earth are getting away with it.

Mary: So they would say that's grace; that's God’s Mercy and Grace, wouldn't they?

Jesus: No, they wouldn't say that because they don't believe that they're going to get away with it. What they believe instead is that the angry God will have a day of judgement where all of those things will be punished. I put to them that God, who is infinitely just, infinitely merciful, infinitely loving, infinitely understanding, and infinitely intelligent, does not need to kill any of the persons He creates; all He needs to do is correct them. He doesn't need to kill them – he needs to correct them. If we were a parent who had a lawless child, would we want to kill them or correct them? What would we want – to correct them, surely.

What we are basically saying is that God doesn't want that – God only wants to kill them. He doesn't want to correct them. We are also saying that this God is incapable of correcting them without finishing up killing them. The religions even go further, though. They say killing them isn't enough; what we want to do because they've been bad people who have done all of these different things that we condemn, we're going to place them in a place of eternal torment for what they've done.

Now I put to you, no matter how bad your son or daughter becomes, would you kill them? Secondly, realising they're still alive; place them in a place where they'll be tormented in pain and torture for the rest of their existence? Would you do that? It doesn't sound like a very loving thing to do, does it? I put to you that the majority of people on Earth would not choose to do that. They would choose to do something different if they had the option, and I put to you that God, being an entity with unlimited resources and an unlimited intellect, would know what the options are, other than doing that very base thing that most of humanity condemns.

3.2. The Christian perspective that they communicate with God through Jesus

Mary: And what about Christians who say that God speaks to them through their relationship with you? They pray to you and they actually hear answers, and isn't that proof of their experiment?

Jesus: The unfortunate thing is that they certainly do hear answers, and sometimes the answers are coming from spirits who are God’s Representatives. Other times the answers are coming from spirits who are not God’s Representatives. Many Christians have said, "We went to war because we got guidance from God that we should go to war."

Participant: George Bush said that.

Jesus: George Bush said that recently, in the last ten years. Now this is basically saying that God is telling a person on Earth that the genocide or the punishment of another human race through violence is acceptable. And I say to you, well, that certainly portrays one kind of God, but not the kind of God that I know; it's certainly not the God that I taught in the first century, and it's certainly not the God that actually exists. So those kinds of guidance must come from another source, an evil source, a source that wants to create more violence on the planet. That's the reality.

3.3. Using logic and love to determine God’s Attributes and Qualities

Mary: So how can we know then? Is it through a measure of love?

Jesus: This is how I feel we can know; it's a very basic explanation. I have a level of love inside of my own heart already that tells me that to kill another person is a wrong act. The majority of you feel the same, do you not? And let's face it, the majority of people on Earth must feel the same, otherwise there wouldn't be a law against murder. If there is a law against murder, that tells me that the majority of people on the planet disagree with murder, and that murder is basically me selfishly thinking that I have the right to determine whether another person lives or dies for anything that they've done, and me thinking I have the right to kill them under some circumstances.

We then as humanity justify the circumstance, but every person’s justification is different. Some people feel it's okay to kill a person just because they disobey you. Stalin, Hitler and all of the genocidal people that have lived on Earth who have been a part of the ruling system have believed that. But that feeling really feels abhorrent inside of my own soul.

Now if it feels abhorrent inside of my own soul to act in that way, and I know that it is not loving, then surely the God who created me must have more love in Him or Her than I do. Does that not make logical sense? If God has more love in Him than I have in me, then surely that God would be just as shocked about a person’s desire to murder as I would be. And while God may understand the underlying emotions that cause the person to revert to murder, He would certainly not justify it and neither would God justify His own killing of millions of people in the process. If I have a certain degree of love within me, then if there is a God that exists, that God must have more love than I have. If that God created my being, even my physical body, which is an amazing apparatus that mankind cannot reproduce, that God must have supreme amounts of intelligence. And if that God is intelligent and also is able to give me the gift of feeling love, then surely that God must have more love than I and more intelligence than I.

My analysing that God through my own limited intelligence puts a lot of limitation on the analysis. I'm trying with my finite brain to understand an infinite being who gave me the gift of love that I don't understand but I feel. And I'm trying with my limited mind to understand an infinite being who created an infinite universe, most of which I do not understand with my mind – yet I judge that infinite being as being less in love than myself. Does that make sense to you? It doesn't make any sense to me, logically. So my answer to people who believe that God is an angry father is that there is a lot of logic to prove that God is not such a being.

Participant: Does our inability to understand God have a big impact on why we have these other beliefs?

Jesus: Well, does it make sense from a logical perspective that God would create children that cannot understand God? It does not, does it? My suggestion is the only reason we cannot understand God is we're trying to apply the wrong rules to God and therefore it's impossible for us to understand God.

We are only going to be able to understand God when we connect to God in the manner in which God designed for us to connect to God. Then of course we will understand God. There are people in the universe who understand immense amounts of information about God, but not everything. God has yet to have a lot of parts of His or Her characteristics and attributes discovered, but they understand much more than what we generally understand here on Earth about God. And we understand more the more we connect to God through this process that I believe a logical God would create. And this is how I reasoned in the first century.

3.3.1. How AJ discovered God’s Attributes and Characteristics in the first century

Jesus: Many people ask me why I even decided to long for love, why I decided to long for this connection with this God. In the first century I realised that there was no logic on Earth about God. None whatsoever; it was all just imposed upon mankind's belief about their parents, mostly, or acceptable systems of religion, which were all about control. They weren't about God. I was thinking logically about my own nature and my own characteristics and thinking if I was created by a being, then logically that being must have more love than I, more intelligence than I, more understanding than I, more wisdom than I, more justice than I, more everything than I. And my assuming that such a being would be less than I am is such an absurd proposition that it makes no logical sense to even believe it.

I don't believe that God created us to not understand God. God did not create a mysterious process for us to understand God. However, God did create a process to understand God, and all that was needed was for us to discover that process. The reason I discovered it in the first century is because it made so much logical sense to me that God would create a very simple process. Something that any person of any level of intelligence on the planet would understand if you present it to them, from a young child that you could teach at two years of age; something that's so simple, so logical and so easy that any person could engage this process of getting to know God. All I did was assume, in the first instance in the first century, that I could engage this very simple process and I'd see what happened.

As I engaged the process and saw what happened, I felt the changes within me, I felt God's Love enter me, and I felt the different adjustments that came as a result. Now I knew for certain that my assumption was correct – just like any scientist would make an assumption, then perform an experiment, then come to a conclusion based on the experiments. That's all I did. I just happened to be the first person to think about doing that for some reason, which I still don't understand. (Laughs) Because I don't understand that such a logical thing could be misrepresented and misplaced by the human race. I still don't understand that.

3.4. Reasons for resisting discovering the truth about God

Participant: I can get the logic of it, so I'm feeling then that it's my resistance to really knowing and wanting to know my emotional addictions that really is in the way of knowing the truth?

Jesus: It's not so much your resistance from your emotional addictions, although they do have a part, but the resistance comes from a number of sources, not just your emotions. Your resistance comes from your environment; your resistance comes also from the belief systems that you've imbibed from the environment.

If I have a belief system that there is only an angry father for me to connect to, who wants to connect to an angry father? So I'm going to avoid the process. If I have a belief system that this angry father will punish me for something that I feel ashamed of doing in the past, that I know was wrong, then I'm going to have resistance to connect to this angry father. They're all emotional, but they're all based on belief systems as well.

If I also have a feeling inside of myself that I can't bear my own emotions – and I need to connect to my father through an emotion – then of course I'm going to have resistance to that process as well.

So I realised that while the process was simple, that a little child could understand, it wasn't going to be easy because the world around us has completely different concepts. And the world doesn't like giving up its concepts at all. Why were these concepts created? The concepts of religion were created primarily for one purpose and that was to control, to control the masses. Statements made by atheists about religion being "the opium of the people" are very correct. That's the reality. It's a way of controlling groups of people, not enabling their free will.

Of course I'm going to look at this God and think, "This God doesn't want me to have my will; He wants me to give up my will for His Will." Do you want to connect to such a God? I don't know about you, but I don't want to connect to such a God. So of course I'm going to have resistance to that process.

All of the resistances are really our resistance to truth, our resistance to love, our resistance to coping with our emotions, that are based around the environment in which we've grown.

The world has nurtured confusion about God so that we all remain disconnected from this being. Why did they want to be disconnected? Because if you connect to a being that you then feel a desire to be connected to, you are no longer going to be in your own mind self-determinant. You are going to feel that somebody else might have some more information that will help you determine what's going to go on in your life. And mankind is so hell bent on being self-reliant that we're willing to completely deny a God and we're willing to create huge confusion about what that God is in order to justify our own self-reliance.

Remember I once said to you as a group that self-reliance is the biggest single injury within mankind. It was created right at the beginning of mankind’s progress, and it remains within the human race to such an extent today that the majority of humans have no desire to connect to God. Not because this God cannot be proven to exist though logic and not because this God cannot be proven through logic to be loving, but because mankind wants self-reliance. That's one of the biggest injuries.

3.5. Using logic and love to determine God’s Attributes and Qualities (continued)

Jesus: God’s basic underlying characteristic, if you like, is that God is an entity with characteristics and attributes, the primary one of which that has been discovered at this point is the attribute of love.

3.5.1. God’s Emotions

Jesus: I put to you that we cannot have an emotion within ourselves that does not exist within our creator. I'm not talking about damaging emotions. If you look at the damaging emotions, they are all about self-determination. I'm talking about emotions that are based around love. We cannot have a certain degree of love without our Greatest Parent, the Creator, having more love than we have. It's impossible to actually have love to that extent.

A lot of people then in the New Age movement go, "Yes, and that means that if we have anger and rage, then God must have more anger and rage than we have." I put to you that there are some things that God created and there are other things that man created, and the two aren't the same. An intelligent person would certainly not create anger, and to be frank with you, every time you're angry you're not being very intelligent. Think about what anger does. It often harms others, it's often murderous, it generally harms other people's free will, it is a terrible feeling that exists inside ourselves, and yet we create it within ourselves.

I put to you that's not a very logical thing to do. It's far more logical to look at the addiction that creates the anger than it is to stay in the anger. Now that's what I can work out with my own limited feeble logic. Surely God knows that. Surely God knows that anger is a pointless and useless emotion that drives terrible, unloving actions. That's what I know; surely God must know the same thing. And if God knows the same thing, then why would anger exist within God? It doesn't make any sense logically to me that anger does.

3.5.2. An example of a participant who has investigated many spiritual paths

Participant: Just following that logic, I know what I believed before was erroneous, but it was first believing in the Bible and then realising that it was all bullshit. So because I got really upset with ...

Jesus: I don't feel the Bible is all bullshit.

Participant: No, but I did.

Jesus: Yeah, I understand.

Participant: I got really upset.

Jesus: Yeah. A lot of people punish the Bible for leading them down a path that they through their own free will chose to take. Now that's not very logical either.

Participant: No.

Jesus: But go on.

Participant: But I really believed it and then I went against it. Then I looked for something, and because I felt that the Bible was so illogical I then went to the New Age path and the yogic everything. I listened to what you say. There was a lot of logic in how they presented it all – if we have the same attributes as God then we are God. I can see how I got involved in it.

Jesus: I agree, I'm not saying that we should be ashamed of ourselves for getting involved in different religious pursuits. What I am saying is that when you apply logic fully to a particular discussion, you can see its flaws quite easily. This is why a lot of people are atheists. What they do is look at the New Age movement, apply a lot of logic to it, see the flaws, and therefore say, "I can't believe that." Then they look at the Christian movement and they apply a logic to it, see a lot of its flaws, and they can't believe that. Then they look at the Islam movement, the Muslim movement, and they apply a lot of logic, see its flaws, can't believe in that. Then they look at the Hindus and the Buddhists and they apply a lot of logic in different areas and can't see the logic in it. They then assume there can't be a God. I don't see that as a logical extension of that complete argument. That's the difference.

3.6. Logic needs to be applied without emotional filters

Participant: What I was saying for myself was that if I hadn't heard you speak, I would have applied what I thought was logical and stayed in that path. How do people who don't hear you speak or know this come to the logic themselves that what they are actually following is not logical? Because I didn't come to that.

Jesus: Well, I find that it's very hard to do that. Remember I began this conversation with the fact that we have applied a lot of principles of God because of the different beliefs we have about our parents and because of the world’s definition of God that we've grown up with. So it's very, very hard for us then to apply logic that isn't somehow emotionally influenced. The majority of people, when they're applying logic to a situation, do not realise the emotional influence that's influencing their logic. Since they don't understand the emotional influence upon their logic, they then take logical conclusions that are not necessarily true.

For instance, the author I was reading last night, in the God fallacy book, was talking about my life, saying I was the instigator of monetary-based religion because my followers instigated a monetary-based religion. Now he's trying to apply logic to a situation that he does not know, and it's very hard to apply logic to something when you haven't got all the facts. The fact is that I didn't promote a money-based religion at all. In fact, I felt quite the opposite about a money-based religion. I do believe that gifts can be received and given, however that is totally up to the individual’s purpose. He was saying that I was promoting the tithe, which was a Judaism-based process, and he felt that as the result of that I was the instigator of a lot of the badness that came about because of the instigation of the monetary-based religion.

Now I don't see the extension of that argument. This is often what happens on Earth: we have the world’s arguments presented to us without knowing all the facts. I believe that you have to find out all the facts if it’s possible, and if you don't know all the facts it's best not to make a decision upon that matter until you know all of the facts. Once you do know the facts, you can start applying the truth to those facts and start coming up with the actual answers. I feel that's what we're capable of doing with logic. Unfortunately for the majority of people when they apply logic, they apply logic through a lot of emotional filters; therefore, their logic isn't logical.

3.6.1. Knowing what love is by recognising the truth

Mary: It feels to me that love is very logical. It always leads us into logic if we have a correct understanding of love, but it feels to me that the issue on the planet is that people don't have a good understanding of what love is and from an emotional perspective. I know that's flawed as well.

Jesus: I don't know whether I can agree with that. The reality is that the average person in their day-to-day life does feel when things feel unloving.

Mary: But it's the avoidance of owning that truth then, isn't it?

Jesus: Exactly. So I feel that it's more about the denial of love and therefore the denial of truth.

Mary: Denial of pain, isn't it?

Jesus: Yeah. And all of those kinds of things, rather than it being about the average person not knowing.

Mary: So if my parent hurts me and says that they love me, I can feel that that's not love.

Jesus: Exactly.

Mary: But because I don't want to face the pain of my parent not loving me, I accept that it is love.

Jesus: Exactly.

Mary: Therefore, when I enter a relationship with God, or I've decided I'm going to discover about God, I can explain away issues of unlovingness as love because I'm still avoiding that primary pain with my parents.

Jesus: Yes, exactly. So while I'm trying to apply logic to the God-based relationship, I'm not realising that I haven't even been logical about my parent in a relationship.

Mary: It seems I can say it's logical, my parents hit me, and that's the way I learned.

Jesus: And they love me.

Mary: And they love me and that's how I learnt. So I can say that it's logical that God would do something that hurts me and that would be love.

Jesus: And the reality is that the time you were hit by your parents, you didn't feel loved; you felt terrified, scared and abused.

Mary: But it's this very issue that we have to conquer isn't it? It's an allowance of our own pain.

Jesus: Yes.

Mary: And a recognition of truth.

Jesus: It's a recognition of actually being able to identify the truth of our own pain, what its source was. Most of the time we are in complete avoidance of what the source is of our own pain. Many of us are still grappling with the idea that our parent didn't love us. We want to believe our parent must have, yet they belted us, treated us violently in some way. Many of us have done the same thing with our own children, still justifying that we loved them, and I put to you that that's not love.

Mary: So that's the main issue with the world’s definition?

Jesus: Yeah, the main issue with the world’s definition of God is that people have all of these parental emotions in play, which they then impose upon God using the same logic they have with the parents. That logic is flawed. When we become adults, if a man comes up and punches you on the nose, you can actually go to a police station, report him and if there are more than two witnesses to the act, he can go to jail for what he did to you. Yet a parent can punch their child on the nose any time they like and it's not called assault. There is something wrong with our reasoning. Logically, if it's an assault for an adult then it surely must be assault, and even a worse one, for the child. And yet we're not logical, we're not even applying logic to that situation. Then we start treating God in the same manner as we've treated our parents.

3.7. Believing that we have more love than God is not logical

Mary: I can just feel the audience is grappling a little bit with what's being presented, which I think is good. For me, I can connect to a loving God; it just feels so logical to me. I guess because I'm reincarnated maybe, that's not a hard...

Jesus: Well I feel partly it's because mankind on Earth still stops this logical reasoning. They believe that they have more love than God does.

Mary: Or that God would reason like them.

Jesus: God might reason like us, we don't know, but to assume that God has less love than we do when God created us and we have love within ourselves makes no logical sense. If there is a God that exists, that God must have more love than I do, otherwise where did my love come from?

For example, you look at the animals and other creatures without mankind; you know, an animal will eat its own child. I don't ever feel like doing that. There have been cases in history where people have done it, but there are also cases where people have been totally selfless, which is a totally illogical act from an evolutionary perspective. The whole evolutionary process of the survival of the fittest makes no sense if you look at the average person’s selfless acts.

The average person is capable of selfless acts. If they're capable of selfless acts then the process of evolution based on the survival of the fittest doesn't make any sense. I believe there is evolution, but not based on survival of the fittest. It makes no sense, because the majority of people on the planet are capable of selfless acts. Particularly a mother or father is capable of selfless acts when it comes to their own children. They'll save their children at their own expense. Not everyone, but some will. Just the fact that one does is proof that there must be more love.

Mary: So the proof of one shows us that there's love.

Jesus: Exactly.

Mary: That's the capability of love within us, so therefore God must have a greater capacity for love.

Jesus: Exactly.

Mary: So we can't measure it by the lack of love within others, because we can see there's a capacity for a greater amount.

Jesus: Exactly. There's got to be a capacity of a greater amount of love in God. If the best of us is capable of a certain amount of love, then God has got to be capable of a greater amount. It makes logical sense.

3.8. Contradictions in the Bible about God’s Loving Nature

Jesus: This is why like the Bible says this about God in first John, 4:8 God is Love,

"Whoever does not love, does not know God because God is love."

But the problem is the Bible then goes on to contradict itself. This is what it says in second Thessalonians verses 1:6-10,

"All this is evidence that God's Judgement is right and as a result you will be counted worthy of the kingdom of God for which you are suffering. God is just, he will pay back trouble to those who trouble you and give relief to you who are troubled and to us as well. This will happen when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven in blazing fire with his powerful angels. He will punish those who do not know God and do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. They will be punished with everlasting destruction and shut out from the presence of the Lord and from the majesty of his power on the day he comes to be glorified in his holy people and to be marvelled at among those who have believed."

Yeah. (Laughter) How about another one? I think I've got another one, yeah here's a good one. This is the same God, another rule, Exodus 21, verse 17.

“Anyone who curses his father or mother must be put to death.”

There are literally hundreds of verses I could have chosen. So one verse is saying God is love and then we have a contradictory verse, second Thessalonians 1:6-10, which basically says that God’s going to punish all of the people who don't accept God and who don't accept God’s Truth.

Again, this makes no logical sense. If you were an all-powerful being, why would you create a system where people can go against you if you're going to punish them for going against you? It's like setting people up to be murdered. Does that make logical sense to you that a God who is all-knowing and infinitely wise can create such a system where he will set you up so that you can go against His rules and regulations, but if you do go against His rules and regulations, you're going to die? Then, of course, it's not death – you'll be eternally tormented for doing so.

Now does that actually make much sense to you? It makes no logical sense to me whatsoever. So while I agree with the statement that God is love, I don't agree that God is punishing.

In fact, I suggest that love is never punishing. Love is a more powerful emotion than any other emotion and therefore does not need to punish. Logically, God is far more intelligent than myself. I would definitely not create a system where a group of people could do the wrong thing and then I punish them for doing it. I would not logically do that. Would you? So why do we think God would do it if we wouldn't do it?

We're basically saying again that God's worse than we are, are we not? We're basically saying we're up here and God is way down here in terms of a concept of love. Yet God was intelligent enough to create this body that I know nothing about. I do not really understand its operation at all, and I certainly don't understand why life lives in it and then dies for some reason. I've got no understanding of that or all these internal processes that man is trying to discover. We can't make the same body, yet we're saying that God is less intelligent than we are and more unloving than we are. Now that does not make any logical sense either, does it? Can you see where we're flawed in our reasoning?

3.8.1. The issue of God giving us free will

Participant: Isn't that part that you've just talked about, showing people that their free will is, “You come with me or you die, that's the choice you make.”

Jesus: Yeah, but I put to you that's not free will. Is it?

Participant: But you can still choose death.

Jesus: To die.

Participant: If you don't wish to go with the other person.

Jesus: But does that not sound like sort of a genocidal maniac?

Participant: It's not much of a choice, I know.

Jesus: No. (Laughter) But doesn't it sound like someone like Stalin? And what do we feel about Stalin? Do you feel that he was a good bloke, nice, friendly, open, nice, loving fellow?

Participant: (Laughs) No.

Jesus: Stalin killed 40 million people that we know about. That's the assumed figure, although nobody really knows the total figure.

Participant: More than God killed in the Bible.

Jesus: Well, God killed 2.4 million that are recorded, but that's without including the extermination of the whole human race in the day of Noah. So if we add the day of Noah to it, we might find the figures are very similar, or perhaps even exceed Stalin’s. If that's the case, what we're basically saying is God is like Stalin (laughs), which is an interesting logical assertion, but doesn't make much sense.

4. Religion, control and tithing

4.1. Religion and tithing

Participant: When the powers that be put the books of the Bible together, would they have chosen all of the books that have been left out, like the Apocryphal books? Do they show that God is more loving in those books than He is in the ones that had been included in the Bible?

Jesus: Well some do and some don't. They were written by different people. Therefore, they had the slant of the person who wrote them and were influenced by spirits who often influence the person writing. So some showed more of a loving God and some showed less of one. What is more the case is that the Bible books were often chosen by the priesthood in order to maintain control.

If I can create a simple set of rules whereby I can state to you that certain things are not allowed and certain things are allowed, and the things that are not allowed have the threat of eternal torment after death, then I can provide a lot of fear for you. And there's a high likelihood that you'll accede to my wishes, which are that I want you to pay me my tithe for delivering this information to you and keeping you under control.

It's a very funny system when you think about it. You're paying somebody to keep you under control, and that's often the Church. That's one of the reasons the Church was created, and a lot of the Christian rules and processes were based on earlier processes that the Jews had. These were all present in my day. The priesthood was reliant on the gifts given to them from the people. So instead of just relying on the gift, what they did was they insured the gift would occur. It's no longer a gift, it's now a payment.

What they did is a bit like what I've seen you do, where you go, "It's available by donation, $10." (Laughter) I've seen this happen. In fact the guys who are making up the communication team wrote an email that we didn't send out, thank goodness. They actually did a presentation where somebody says, "This is all available for a $10 donation." Now a $10 donation is not a gift. That is now a requirement. Peter knows that I've had this discussion with him many times. That's why we're doing our own DVD's because of this principle.

The religions have placed a requirement, and this is why they have this thing called a collection plate; they've gone through all different means. Many religions historically went into the tithing system, which means you pay 10% of your wages to whomever.

Imagine the amount if you've got a million people paying 10% of their wages every week. What’s the average wage nowadays in Australia? Let’s be really tight and say the average wage is $500 a week. If it's $500 a week then a 10th of that is $50 and there are a million people. So what's that every week? $50 million. Just with a million people, $50 million coming in every week. What's that per year – $2.5 billion a year, just from Australians who practice that one thing. Can you see high desire to maintain that if you're into money? So religion has become a money making exercise.

Now ironically I get accused of being a money making exercise just by having a donation box up the back. None of you are under any pressure to donate and I'm just providing you a means to give a gift if you wish, which I feel is a very different process than actually demanding it from you or tithing it from you.

So what's the difference between myself and a person who is, say, a New Age speaker, what do they call them nowadays? Not that I'm as good as many of them but …

Participant: Motivational speaker.

Jesus: A motivational speaker. So what do they do? They have four or five hundred people come along, sometimes one hundred people come along, and many of them charge $600-$1000 for the session. And I get condemned for putting a contribution box up the back. That doesn't make much sense to me either.

4.2. Priests versus prophets

Jesus: There is the priesthood and then there are the prophets. The priesthood wants to control, they want to manipulate you and use your money. The prophets just want to tell you about God, what's going on with God, what you can do to connect with God, and what you can do to bring your life into more harmony with love.

I'm one of the prophets. There are many millions of priests on the planet; there are very few prophets. That's the reality. Now the priesthood determined a lot of the rules, such as in the Bible. They determined a lot of the rules because they wished to control, and that's a fact. One way to control is to say that the almighty being of the universe has this system in place where if you do the wrong thing you die, then on top of that you get tortured for the rest of your existence after your death. You can see why many people are terrified of God, can't you?

Would you desire to connect to a God you're terrified of? No. So what do they say? That you must fear God. This is in the Bible in many places – you must fear God because God is this punishing God who is going to not only kill you, should you be a wrong doer, but he's going to take more steps than that, he is going to torture you for the rest of your existence. Now obviously that God cannot exist, because I wouldn't do it. I don't care whether any of you would do it. The fact that one person, myself, would not do that means that, that God cannot exist. Can you see the logic of that? If just one person on the Earth would not do that, then it means that particular God cannot exist.

5. The truth about God giving us free will

Jesus: Let's go to the free will discussion, shall we?

Mankind is very confused about the gifts God has given us. The New Age religion basically says that God gave us free will. Some of them say that it is with consequences and some of them say that it is with none, it just depends on how liberal they are. For the ones who say it's with consequences, they call that karma. And the ones who say there are no consequences and that everything is right, they of course don't have a name for it. (Laughter)

What does the Bible say? Well, the very person who's giving this talk to you is often quoted as saying all sorts of things that he didn't say. (Laughter) But this one I'd like to read to you. It's in the book of John, chapter 6 verse 38. It says,

"For I have come down from heaven, not to do my will, but to do the will of Him that sent me."

In other words, the Bible is basically saying forget about your will. The leader of your religion said,

"Not my will but the will of Him that sent me."

Now that is another false statement in the Bible. I never said that, and I never am going to say it, because the reality is it is my will, and it was my will to continue teaching what I'm teaching. I desire to do it. If I didn't desire to do it, I wouldn't do it, no matter what God told me. But the Bible says it is not my will – God’s Will is the thing that we need to follow.

Does this make much sense? Of course it results in a lot of confusion. One form of religion is saying that God gave us free will, which means we're allowed to do anything we want; the other is basically saying God gave us free will but when you don't do God's Will, you'll get killed. That doesn't feel like free will anymore. That feels like one thing matters and that's all.

The Bible also says this in Galatians 6:7

"Do not be deceived, God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows. The one who sows to appease his sinful nature, from that nature will reap destruction. The one who sows to please the spirit, from that spirit will reap eternal life."

The Bible also says that not only do we not follow our own will, but whatever we choose to do is going to have a consequence. It's interesting, we're not meant to follow our own will. It's bit confusing, but we'll leave the confusion there.

5.1. Testing the truth about free will

Jesus: So there's Galatians 6 verse 7. We've got John 6 verse 38. What's the truth? And remember I'm saying to you that the truth can be tested. It's interesting when you talk to spirits because they've had a lot more opportunity to test than we have and they have an opportunity to tell you about the spirit world. It's interesting when you talk to them, and one of the reasons the priesthood doesn't want you to talk to the spirits is you might find out the truth about what it's really like.

I've talked to many Christian spirits who have ended up in what's called hell in the spirit world, but it's not a place of fiery torment. They are immediately confused because they're in a place where they feel terrible, but there's no fire and there's no Satan, and they don't understand. When you talk to spirits who believe that God gave us free will, there's a sense of karma where what you sow, you will reap. They generally find themselves in a bit better condition because they have realised that the actions they take that are unloving have an unloving consequence, but unfortunately for many of them, they didn't realise what love was because they had the world’s definition of love, as we talked about yesterday in "Human Relationships - The World’s Definition of Love." So they are reaping the consequence of actions they thought were loving but were actually unloving, and many of them have distress about that.

So what's the truth about God? Well, God gave us free will. I feel that is definitely a truth. This can be tested. There's a "but": every action that we take in harmony with love has a positive consequence on our soul and every action that we take out of harmony with love has a negative consequence on our soul. We have free will, but there is a consequence to every action we take. We are allowed to believe different things than the truth. Some of those beliefs might have a negative consequence and some might not have a negative consequence on our soul. It just depends on what actions we took that became unloving as a result and the different feelings that we had as a result.

So God gave us free will, we can test this. Exercise your free will, and this is a very logical thing to do. Does God punish a negative exercise of your free will? You all know the answer. How do you know the answer? Because you've experimented with this in your own life and no fire came down out of heaven and punished you when you did something that you knew to be wrong. Sometimes you were waiting for it, and you were fearfully anticipating God’s wrath, and you went, "Ah, it didn't happen." And then because we think it didn't happen, we go and do the next thing wrong and the next thing wrong because the truth is that God is not punishing every deed like that. That's the truth, but there is a belief in the Christian faith that they're building up to the day of judgement when all of those deeds that have gone unpunished will now be punished. Now does that make much logical sense to you either?

Does it make logical sense to you that something would be punished when the deed was fifty years ago? Imagine doing this with your own child. Let's say you're prone to giving your children a smack every time they do something wrong. Your child does something wrong and then seven years later you decide now's the time to give them a smack. So you give them a smack and they say, "What's that for?" "That was for what you did seven years ago." Does that really help the child be corrected or change? Does that sound logical to you? But that's what Christians are suggesting God does, exactly the same thing as that.

What I'm suggesting is that there is a consequence on the soul that is immediate. But it is not a physical consequence; it's a consequence in the soul's pain. When the soul experiences pain, it's the result of an action that was taken that was out of harmony with love. And when the soul experiences pleasure, it can be the result of the soul experiencing something that is harmonious with love. I say "can be" because it can also be the soul experiencing an addiction and enjoying itself in the process, but I put to you that at the soul level, that's not really a feeling of joy.

God gave the gift of free will and God has this system in place, and it is a very intelligent system if you think about it. We can look at the things God does and analyse it a bit through intelligence, can't we? Does it make sense for God to punish somebody fifty years after they did the deed? Would you do it? No, most of us want to punish the person immediately, do we not? So if God was the rageful God that He's portrayed to be, surely He should be punishing immediately, too. Surely that would make sense.

So again, these statements of the world’s definition of what God is or what God does are very limited, and they cause us to be more uncertain about the truth. This is the problem with a lot of the presentations of the holy books.

The World’s Definition of God: Part 2

6. AJ addresses the audience’s resistance to the discussion

Jesus: Something that all of you would have noticed in our previous session was that when we were talking about emotions, everyone was quite alert, quite awake, not very shut down at all, pretty open, everyone was listening quite intently. As soon as we started talking about this particular subject, the world’s definition of God, all of a sudden many of you became very shut down. Quite a number of you fell asleep and many of you were fighting off tiredness. I want to address that before we begin the second half, otherwise you'll all be asleep by the time I'm finished. (Laughs)

There are a lot of Christian spirits who are with us today who are in quite a lot of anger about what I'm saying. Many of you, when you have anger projected at you, just want to shut down, you just want to go away. The key is to be open rather than shutting down.

I'll just say this for the spirits' benefit: My suggestion is if you have issues with what I'm saying to the group today, instead of unlovingly oppressing the group with anger and rage, the better thing for you spirits to do would be to come along and talk to me. I'm the person who's saying all these things. Come and talk to me about how angry and upset you feel about what I'm saying. We can talk about that Thursday when we've got some mediumship organised, rather than your dumping your anger and rage on the group that's present.

Many of the Christian spirits are still awaiting the day of judgement. They still have very strong beliefs in the spirit world that are causing them to remain in the first dimension of the spirit world, and some of them are even in the hells of the spirit world. Many of them are still awaiting the time that Jesus comes and they feel I cannot be Jesus because I haven't come in the manner they've expected, where I would come and bring them as my angels back to Earth and go through this process that they believe will occur. Now obviously this will never occur, and my stating that is causing them to feel quite a lot of anger and rage. My also stating that the Bible's definition of God is incorrect is quite confronting for them because it puts into question whether the Bible is God's Word or not, and many of them have believed they have been following the Bible.

The condition of darkness they're in is not a reflection of whether they've followed the Bible or not but rather a reflection of whether they had love in their souls or not. Their condition of love is determining their current condition, not how much they do or don't believe the truth. Unfortunately for many of them, they think that all they needed to do was believe the truth and it didn't matter how loving they were. But it does matter how loving you are, and if you look at the Bible's words, some of my words in the first century, you will see I was constantly referring to how loving a person was and how important it was for their future. So that's something for them to bear in mind. I just wanted to say that in order to help alleviate some of the pressure many of you feel to go to sleep this afternoon, and I'm also trusting that it's not because the subject matter is boring. (Laughter)

Many of you have the idea that you already know what God is, so the subject matter sometimes feels a little like we're revising something. However, I put to you one basic truth: If you know what God is, then you would already be at-one with God. It's an interesting way of looking at it, isn't it? If you really know what God is, you would now, right at this moment, be at-one with God.

The reality is that all of us here are not yet at-one with God; therefore, we do not know what God is. This is why it's essential to cover the subject, because otherwise we will never see why we don't know what God is. Can you see already that two of the primary reasons we don't know what God are because we're imposing our emotions towards our parents towards God, and we're also imposing the world's belief systems towards God, which limits us?

7. The importance of understanding God

Jesus: Intellectually, you and I can reason to the end of time about God and you still won't know what God is unless you can feel God's Love entering you. It is God's Love entering you that allows you to understand God. God's Love is the thing that opens your soul into having a capacity to understand God, as well as to understand yourself and understand the universe. Those are the subsequent side benefits of understanding God. That's why I used the words in the first century, "If you seek first God's Love, all these other things will be added to you." You see, once you can understand more about God, you will automatically understand more about everything else. Understanding God is the most difficult in the sense that it is an infinite process of coming to understand God and it's the most complex process. .

For everything I've personally discovered in the last 2,000 years, there's always been a feeling in me that if you can understand God, you can understand everything else. Do you understand that intellectually? If you can understand God, you can get everything else. You can investigate everything else and still not understand God, but the more you can understand God, the more knowledge of everything else automatically comes to you as a result of your understanding of God. Because the different complexities of understanding God – if I can use that term, but it's not the right term and that's why I was sort of fumbling with the word, but I can't find another English word to describe what I'm trying to say – the different complexities involved in understanding God help you understand the rest of the universe. What's the word do you think, babe?

Mary: It's because once you understand God's Nature and the way God's Love governs everything else in the universe, it's very easy to interface with anything else in the universe because you see God's Logic in it. Is that what you're trying to say?

Jesus: Sort of but it's not really the full extent of what I'm trying to say.

Mary: It's not? I agree. I don't know how to say it either.

Jesus: I don't know if anyone will get what I'm trying to say anyway, so I might give that up. (Laughs) Sorry, but I think all of you get the underlying gist.

8. God and the universe

Jesus: If you imagine the universe is ever expanding; we are in a galaxy, in a little solar system, on a little planet. It has been proven, of course, that the universe is ever expanding; it is expanding outwards, travelling outwards above light speeds generally.

We are a tiny part of a galaxy within the expanding universe

Now if God were a part of the universe, then if this universe did not exist, that would mean that God did not exist, and I put to you that that is illogical. For example, when you create a car, you exist before the creation of the car and you can jump in the car or get out of the car, the car is a separate thing to you. The universe is the same as that. In other words, the universe is a creation of God and not God Herself. That being the case, God exists even when the universe does not exist. God continues to exist. And it's through a process that man is starting to understand the beginnings of investigation that God created the universe and then things started to be created within the universe itself, inside of this system if you like.

That being the case, God has to be not a part of that system, in the sense that God existed before that system got created. A lot of scientists are coming up with the idea through scientific proof that we are all joined together, even sub-atomically. While that is true, that does not mean we are all the same entity, and it does not mean God is joined with us in the same manner. It's an illogical extension to believe so because before this universe existed, God existed, so God must be larger and different than the universe itself.

We’re looking at the physical universe, but there also is the spiritual universe that you cannot see at this point in time, but which also is ever expanding. Every time a new dimension is created through a jump in love, there is a whole new universe created as well. And God existed before the creation of that universe as well. So while that universe is a part of God’s Energy, in other words God’s Energy is flowing through and into that universe, it does not mean that God is that universe and it does not mean that we are God. They are two illogical extensions of what we observe.

8.1. Reasons for resistance to logic

Jesus: Now what I'm feeling a lot of times when I talk about logic is there is a struggle in many of you with the logical extensions. If you can just consider for a moment that that is because of different emotions you have from your childhood about logic.

Many of us have blocks to logic and are blocked to mathematics and science. A lot of those blocks to logic, mathematics and science are related to emotions related to your parents and particularly your fathers. But they're also related to the blocks regarding learning and how much you've been made fun of when you were learning, how much you've been humiliated and punished when you were learning. These different emotional injuries that are gathered through our lifetime causes us to be very shut down emotionally towards aspects of learning.

When you release all of this emotional damage, you are now completely open to all aspects of learning. So those of you who are not very attracted to mathematics will find yourself becoming more so, just as those who are not very attracted to music will find yourself becoming more so, and so forth. As we release the blockages within our soul, our soul is able to absorb information from the universe and absorb all of the information that's available rather than a limited type of information that's available.

If you can remember that with these concepts that we are God and that God’s Energy flows through us, while some of these concepts, like that God’s Energy flows through us, are true, that doesn't make us God because there could be a transfer mechanism that allows energy to flow from God to us. We could still be two separate individuals, two separate entities. So when we make a statement that God’s Energy flows through us, it's not a logical extension then to believe that I am God or God is me.

9. Divine Truth is infinite

Jesus: This is where we as mankind have got to be really careful. This is what religion has done; they've looked at one thing, then they've made some statements that they've then turned into dogma, into what they believe to be truth. We have to be very careful doing this in our progression; this is not the way to truth.

Remember truth is an ever expanding and universal expansion process; what I am saying to you now will need to be revised. Not may need to be revised, will need to be revised. It is the level of truth we know at this point in time, and there is going to be a growth in truth. We need to get used to this idea, we need to get used to the idea that none of us can actually say dogmatically this is the direct truth about this particular thing without there being more knowledge available.

Now there are many subjects that we, during our last 2,000 years, and spirits in the spirit world have exhaustively experimented with and feel a very high degree of certainty about. One of those is the reception of Divine Love. There is literal proof that this is the truth in many billions of spirits that Divine Love is available to all humanity and through a process, the process of becoming born again, that proof is available. As soon as one person did it, then there was proof available.

This is what we need to bear in mind with all of our discoveries of truth. With every discovery of truth that has ever occurred on the planet or in the spirit world, there was always a person who first discovered it, and once that person discovered it, it can be established as truth to the degree that we understand it. That's what we need to bear in mind with all truth. Creating a book that is said to be the whole of God’s Truth, nothing but the truth and nothing can be added or taken away from it, is actually precluding the discovery of additional truth. What it's trying to do is fit a universal and infinite cosmos into a book and limit it, which is a physical impossibility.

This is something we need to bear in mind in our own progression and this is why we need to be open to our connection to God. It is our connection to God that is going to help us get more and more knowledge, more and more wisdom, more and more understanding, and more important than all of these, more love.

If we can bear that in mind when we're analysing these things, it will help us a lot. Also if the spirits with us can bear that in mind, too – that logically, the universal cosmos is infinite in nature and therefore God must be even more so and cannot fit into a limited 1,000 or 2,000 page book. We can't expect it to, and if you expect it to, you are already out of harmony with the development of more truth within your own life. You are limiting yourself straight away.

10. The importance of examining the world’s definition of God

Jesus: Let’s look at some other things about God. Remember it's the world’s definition of God that is right at this moment defining your relationship with God. That's why we're going through this. Your relationship with God is being controlled by any unhealed emotions and any unhealed beliefs you have inside of yourself about God. These unhealed emotions and unhealed beliefs within yourself about God came from the world you lived in and from the parents you grew up with.

Now your parents can be atheist and you still will have beliefs about God that are erroneous. They could be agnostics and you could still have beliefs about God that are erroneous inside of your soul. At some point connecting with God will confront those errors.

11. Different teachings about God’s Location and Nature

Jesus: Let's look at some of the beliefs about God. 1: Timothy 6: verses 15 and 16, says this,

"God the blessed and only Ruler, the King of kings and Lord of lords, who alone is immortal and who lives in unapproachable light, who no-one has seen or can see, to Him be the honour and might forever."

So what is this saying about God? That God is the universal ruler, that God is immortal, and that God lives in a place where nobody else could actually survive in. I believe most of those things – that God lives in a place where I personally could not survive in right now and therefore lives in a place of far higher love than what I personally have received. So here's one scripture that says God is a loving ruler of creation; then there's this other scripture, 2 Thessalonians 1:8-9 that says,

"God will punish those who do not know God and do not obey the gospel of Lord Jesus. They will be punished with everlasting destruction and shut out from the presence of God."

On one hand we've got this God who is the blessed, loving Ruler of creation, and on the other hand this blessed, loving Ruler of creation murders people as well. Now logically does that make much sense? It's quite confused, isn't it? Can we see the confusion between those two verses? By the way, they are both in the New Testament of the Bible, not in the old, and are actually only two books apart; they're just a few pages apart, yet they are totally different, contradictory statements about God.

11.1. World views about God being punishing

Jesus: So what does the average Church person do with this? They say, "Ah, well, that's not a contradiction about God. God is a Ruler and God will punish the wicked. That's what we've got to accept." The only reason you would have a tendency to accept that is because you're angry with people and you want them punished. Is that not true? Recently a group of Christian spirits came to us wanting people to be punished. They're waiting for the day of judgement because they want all the people who harmed them punished. They feel that if that doesn't happen, they'll miss out on this beautiful feeling of having all the people who harmed them punished.

I know my own father feels very similar to this. He feels that he is a peaceable man; he would never go to war. At one stage before he was religious he was in the army reserves, but he got out of the army, and now he would never go to war. Someone could put a gun to his head and say go to war and he would let himself be shot instead of going to war; that's my father. He would classify himself to be a peaceful man. But when I talk to him about God not being a God of wrath, or a God of punishment, he became enraged with me because he wants God to punish all the people that he wasn't allowed to punish. You see?

Participant: AJ, I have not worked through my father stuff, and I assume then that I am wanting to punish him.

Jesus: Wanting to punish your Dad? Yeah.

Participant: Yeah, because of what he did. Logically I'd say I don't believe in a punishing God. Is that really denying the fact that I probably see God as a punishing God?

Jesus: Well, do you want your father to be punished?

Participant: If you ask me logically, I'd say no.

Jesus: What's the feeling? Be honest with the feeling.

Participant: Yes.

Jesus: Yeah, okay. Who's going to do the punishing if you're not going to do it?

Participant: God.

Jesus: Someone has to. (Laughs) So we're really expecting God to carry out acts of violence towards others. In fact, we want God to do it so that we don't have to do it. This emotion is in very many of us – we actually prefer to see somebody punish all the people that have hurt us in our life. We can't do it ourselves because we know that would be wrong, so we want God to do it. Now if we can't do it because we know if would be wrong, then surely it would also be wrong for God to do it. That makes sense logically, but we don't think that way because we want God to do it. We impose this emotion of wanting the punishment of others upon God. So we say, "Yeah, it's not up to us to punish others, instead we're going to wait for God to punish others," and in fact there's a verse in the Bible that actually says that, which I'll read to you a bit later, that is waiting for God to punish others.

Participant: I've been around a few religions recently and a lot of Christians have said they felt that a spirit or God prompted them to talk to me about certain things. But with a lot of what you're explaining today, for a lot of those prompts, it seems like God’s prompting them to save them from God.

Jesus: Exactly. Does it sound like God would be doing that?

Participant: Yeah, it's like God chasing his tail, sort of thing.

Jesus: So who's prompting them?

Participant: Spirits, obviously.

Jesus: Spirits who are also in the same belief system in the spirit world, and who want to confront you somehow. This is why you often receive anger-based emotions from Christians. Not all Christians are like that. There are some Christians who are very open, very loving, very considerate of others, not judgemental or condemnatory, but unfortunately there is also another group who are very unloving, very angry, very rageful, very condemnatory, very judgemental and attacking. And one of the reasons they are is because they are quite often over-cloaked by spirits in the spirit world who are Christians and who have the same judgemental emotions, the kinds of emotions that were present during the inquisition, for example, where they felt that they could oppress others through rage and anger and violence.

11.2. Do God’s Laws punish?

Participant: AJ, I just wanted to ask, I don't want to think God punishes, but what about God's Laws?

Jesus: Well, isn't that just an extension of God? Do God’s Laws punish? Let's ask that question.

Participant: Do I think they punish? No, I don't think God’s Laws punish, but I think that if we break God’s Laws there's are consequences.

Jesus: There is a consequence, but is that a punishment? Is a consequence the punishment?

Participant: Yes.

Jesus: I'd argue no. The reason I'd argue no is the consequence is the direct result of the breaking of the law. It's not a punishment; it's just a direct result. Would you say if a person fell off a roof and broke their arm when they hit the ground that was God's punishment for standing on the roof?

Participant: No.

Jesus: Would you say it was God’s punishment for falling off the roof?

Participant: No, I wouldn't.

Jesus: So what would you say it was then?

Participant: I'd say it was their Law of Attraction.

Jesus: So in other words, they're to blame for breaking their arm?

Participant: I guess the consequence is theirs because it's their Law of Attraction.

Jesus: Yeah.

Participant: But am I fooling myself by pretending to say that, when really I'm still wanting punishment?

Jesus: Yeah, I feel we've got to be very careful because we have a lot of these Christian beliefs. These are multigenerational beliefs, and even though many of us now are not Christian, we have many Christian beliefs going on inside of our soul still that we are basically imposing on our life. The reality is God sets up laws for the protection and love of people.

11.2.1. An example of gravity and aerodynamics

Jesus: The reason why we have the Law of Gravity is quite simple. What is it? What is the law of gravity for?

Participant: It sticks you to the Earth.

Jesus: It sticks you to the Earth, yeah. That's pretty handy, hey? Because what would happen if you flew off the Earth? Eventually you'd get into a rare atmosphere where you'd be gasping for breath. Ask anybody who goes to Mount Everest, just 29,000 feet above sea level, how they feel trying to breathe in that atmosphere. After a while it's painful and exhausting and they often spend very little time in that area without oxygen. Go up another 50,000 feet, now you are getting to get on the edges of our metosphere, or whatever it is called. Try breathing there. What happens there? No air at all. What happens when you're asphyxiated? You die.

So God’s Law of Gravity is a loving law to keep you on the ground so that you don't fly off into space. You imagine coming out of the womb and then flying off into space – a very short existence without clarity. I know that puts some pretty funny images into your mind. But that's the law of gravity. The Law of Gravity is a law which consequences are loving. See, this is where we don't understand; the consequences are loving. It's only when we break the law in a manner that we do not understand that the consequence becomes painful.

Now if we have the Law of Aerodynamics on my side, we're not breaking the law of gravity. The Law of Gravity is still in play, but we have found another law that operates on a higher level than the Law of Gravity that enables us to fly. It enables birds and other creatures to fly, of course. It enables us to fly because we understand the law, and that law is also loving.

11.2.2. Laws that operate on the human soul

Participant: What about the Law of Compensation?

Jesus: That's also a very loving law because without compensation for things that have been done that have been unloving, there would be no correction on the soul that did the unloving act and so the soul would never get into a happier state. So the Law of Compensation is another loving law.

One thing we need to understand about God is that all God’s Laws are loving. If all God’s Laws are loving, none of them are for punishment purposes; they're all for a loving purpose, every single one of them. We just need to understand its purpose and what it's there for. None of us condemn the Law of Gravity as being an unloving law. We don’t ask, "Why did God create that? What's the problem with God? Unloving God, making this gravity thing." None of us complain about that, but as soon as we start talking about the spiritual laws, now we all start complaining. But they have exactly the same operation in that they are all loving, they all have a loving consequence.

There is a class of God's Laws that operate upon my soul. When I break one of those laws, there is a consequence upon my soul, the purpose of which is to help me work through what in my soul caused me to want to break that law. It's a bit like standing on the edge of a ten-story high building and feeling the urge to step off. Now most of us would call that crazy if I didn't have a wing of some kind attached to my back. We call that suicide, yet when it applies to God’s other Laws, the spiritual laws, we don't call that spiritual suicide; we call that God trying to control us.

There need to be laws in place, otherwise there would be anarchy. The law is in place and I have the choice inside of me to either break it or not break it. Now sometimes I might break it inadvertently without there being a reason for myself. In other words, I'm standing on the top of the building looking over and then somebody comes along and gives me a push. I haven't chosen to break the law, but the consequence will be similar at the physical level. I'll probably die when I hit the ground either way, whether I jumped or was pushed. Either way I don't condemn the law. I made the mistake or the person who tried to murder me made the mistake.

We're still not condemning the law. We are not saying the law is unfair. We're saying there is a consequence to the breaking of it. Assume that every one of God’s Laws must be loving, then you can also allow the fact that, yes, there will be a consequence on my soul.

If I break a Law of Gravity there is a consequence on my body. You can see that the consequences are not based around a punishing system, but rather a correctional system. If we stand on the edge of a roof and we fall off and hit the ground and break our arm, the next time we're on the roof we're going to be a lot more careful about what we do. Unless we have another law at our side, such as the Law of Aerodynamics –there are other laws, too, such as laws of anti-gravitational pull, scientific laws that we haven't even discovered yet that could help us avoid these situations, but we don't know how to use them yet; so understand that we have limitations at the moment - we're pulled down by the Law of Gravity so we're kept on the Earth. That's a loving thing, not an unloving thing; otherwise we'd be dead within moments of arrival. So we're in a loving environment that God has created for the nurturing of our soul, but there are systems in place that will correct us if we try to break the loving environment. If we look at every single law like that, we'll have a large degree of understanding about God as a result.

11.2.3. God’s Laws are designed to teach us how to love

Mary: The way I feel is God has geared the whole universe for us to learn love. So it doesn't even feel like a correction to me. It's a consequence that gives me an opportunity to learn love.

Jesus: Yeah.

Mary: And that's very different from punishment. Like if I'm with a child and they do something that harms their soul, I can help them see the consequence so that they can learn love, or I can whack them, which is a punishment and doesn't help them learn anything.

Jesus: Yes, and God doesn't take that second action.

Mary: No, never. We talked about that when we were in Armadale with the group about the Law of Attraction being a very loving law. It's not just, "Oh something happened to you, it’s your fault, it's your Law of Attraction." There's a talk in Melbourne where you talk about that really beautifully if people want to look at that – the different elements involved in one event, in terms of the Law of Attraction and how it's loving to every person involved.

Jesus: To every single person involved, yes.

Mary: But I do feel it's a Christian hangover to go, "That's your Law of Attraction."

Jesus: And this is what I'm getting at. Because of the world’s definition of love, which has now entered us, and the world’s definition of God that has now entered us, we believe that God is not a God of love but a God of punishment. This is directly what the Bible is saying. It's saying to you God is a God of love and a God of punishment at the same time, and I'm saying to you that such a thing is not possible. He's either one or the other, not both. He either is a God of love or He is a God of punishment, one or the other. The Bible itself says that He's both and there's then the implication that I can be both – that I can be a person of punishment and a person of love at the same time. And I suggest to you that that's also not possible, exactly the same limitation.

Love is the defining factor of all of God’s Laws. The trouble is our definition of God is based around a God of punishment, not a God of love. Most of us even have the inflection in our own souls even after we've learned the truth, we still have the feeling inside of us that we're being punished with God's Law of Attraction, for example, operating upon our soul. We feel like we're being punished rather than being corrected, rather than learning about love and learning about why we just broke a law of love. We feel we're being punished instead. We feel it's unjust most of the time, don't we?

11.2.4. An example of getting an illness

Jesus: For instance, how many times do we refer to an illness and think of it as an unjust illness? Pretty much all the time, don't we? And how many times do you hear of a person with an illness and everybody wants to pray for them? Why is that? Why does everybody want to pray for them? Now I'm all for praying for them, but not to pray to alleviate their illness. Can you see why?

Participant: It is taking away the consequence, the lesson they need to learn about love.

Jesus: Yeah, we're taking away the consequence of something that's gone on inside of their soul that's been unloving to themselves that has caused the particular illness. So we're taking away their consequence. We're asking God to take away the consequence without dealing with its cause. Now God’s going to go, "I'm sorry, but I created this relationship because of a loving rule, how can I then do what you ask? I can only do what you ask if the person decides to see the unloving rule being broken. That's the only way in fact that the proper healing can take place." We feel that sickness is punishment. This is why we have so much judgement about someone getting sick. Historically whenever you got sick, people would say that it was God’s Wrath upon you, and a lot of us still feel that it is. And it's not.

This is why we even have so much judgement about our own sicknesses; we feel it's somehow God’s Wrath. It is not.

Participant: I'm just wondering if you can heal a child without the parents wanting to look at any of their emotions?

Jesus: Certainly you can. The child has free will, so of course you can heal the child, but it doesn't mean that the child isn't going to reabsorb the same emotional condition that caused its illness. So the healing might be temporary rather than permanent, depending on what the child absorbs after that period of time.

12. Changing false belief systems

Participant: This is a question from spirits from the other side who don't know whether they've experienced love or not. Their question is how do they unbelieve? How do they break down the web that they're in that they've believed? The question is how do they unbelieve?

Jesus: Yeah, I get the question. Well, the first thing is that if they question whether they've ever received love or not, then they've probably never received love. The second thing is how do you unbelieve? This is the difficulty that we face. The difficulty we face is that every belief that enters us that's false enters us through an emotional process. It enters us connected to some emotion or belief, associated usually with our environment and particularly with our parents.

To unbelieve something means to give up the emotional connection between the belief and our desire to have it remain. That is a difficult process for many. That's why many will actually go to war rather than do that because it can be such a painful process. To unbelieve we have to learn to experience our own pain, rather than perpetrate pain onto others. That's what is going to be required of every single false belief that's in the universe – a process of allowing yourself to feel the pain of the belief within you and release it from you, without perpetrating its pain upon others.

13. Different teachings about God’s Mercy and Wrath

Jesus: The Bible says in Luke chapter 6, and verse 35 and 36 that God is a God of mercy and understanding. I've quoted this verse a number of times previously because it's one of my favourite sayings. It says,

"But love your enemies and do good to them and lend to them without expecting to get anything back."

This is to your enemies; these are my words to the Jews.

"Then your reward will be great and you'll be sons of the most high, because He is kind to the ungrateful and wicked. Be merciful just as your Father is merciful."

Now that is a loving person, being kind to the ungrateful and the wicked. Kindness to the ungrateful and wicked is love. That certainly follows, doesn't it? So that's one description of God. Here's another in Deuteronomy, chapter 13. I'll read a few of these verses. This is the same God we're talking about now. It says,

"If you hear it is said about one of the towns, the Lord your God is giving you to live in that wicked men have risen among you and have led the people of their own town astray saying, ‘Let us go and worship other gods, gods you have not known,’ then you must enquire, probe and investigate it thoroughly and if it is true and it's been proved that this detestable thing has been done among you, you must certainly put to the sword all who live in that town.

“Destroy it completely, both its people and its livestock. Gather all the plunder of the town into the middle of the public square and completely burn the town and all of its plunder as a whole burned offering to your Lord, your God. It is to remain a ruin forever, never to be rebuilt. None of those condemned things shall be found in your hands, so that the Lord will turn from His fierce anger and He will show you mercy and will have compassion on you and increase your numbers, as He promised in an oath to your forefathers, because you obey the Lord your God, keeping all of his commands that I am giving you today and doing what is right in his eyes."

In the Second World War, when the Nazis did that to a town, what did we do? We created a trial system called the Nuremberg trials, isn't that the name? We created a trial system to find every one of those people and we called their actions war crimes by people who were criminals against humanity. Yet the Bible actually says to do exactly the same thing. How do you feel about that? On one hand there are my words talking about God and His real qualities; on the other hand in the same Bible, which by the way a Christian would say is all of God’s Words, we get this God who's willing to completely eradicate from existence not only the people in the town but all the animals in the town, all the livestock in the town, everything in order to please his own vanity just because they don't worship him. That's the only reason. Isn't that vanity?

Doesn't that sound like some people in some governments we've seen in the last couple hundred years? Vanity wanting everybody to agree with them, and as soon as someone does not, he dies. We condemn that in humans and yet it's acceptable for God. I put to you that it's not acceptable for God, and this is just another false thing that's in the Bible about God. The problem I see with trusting a book that has so many false things about God is that when you start presenting arguments with the book, you are already basing your arguments on false premises. To me, that's not a very logical thing to do. Why would you want to do that?

By the way I'm singling out the Bible, but the Quran says almost identical things – to kill, to pillage, to completely eradicate certain people with certain beliefs from your society, something that no self-respecting Muslim with a conscience would want to do. I can quote some of those verses in the Quran if you want; I've written them down.

14. Different teachings about God’s Perfect Creations

Jesus: Here are some comments that Paul made about God in Romans 11.

"The depth of the riches of wisdom and knowledge of God, how unsearchable His judgements and His paths beyond tracing out. Who has known the mind of the Lord? Who has been his councillor? Who has ever given to God that God should repay him? For from Him and through Him and to Him are all things, to Him be the glory forever."

Now they are very beautiful words, which I feel are all true. There is another one that my friend John wrote, through inspiration, 1st John 3:20,

"God is greater than our hearts and he knows everything."

I also agree with that. It's basically saying that God is greater than everything, knows all things, is perfect in all of His ways. It's saying that God never makes a mistake, never feels bad, God is greater than our hearts, and all of that is true. And then it says,

"So the Lord said, 'I will wipe out mankind whom I have created from the face of the Earth, men and animals and creatures that move along the ground and birds of the air for I am grieved that I made them.'"

Audience: Sigh.

Jesus: Sigh. (Laughter) That's a pretty heavy emotion that God has, isn't it? Being grieved that he actually created. Now if God is omniscient and all powerful as the religions claim, and as I personally agree with, then this has to be a false verse because there is no way that God would be grieved about His creations when all of His creations are perfect. Why would He be aggrieved at a creation? He would feel no grief, because He would have known and even foreknown that many of the men might turn out to be wicked before He even created them. He would have known that by giving them the gift of free will, realising the possibility that free will could be used negatively and therefore cause wickedness and evil. Wouldn't He have known that? So how could He then be grieved that they become that way and then want to wipe them out, which is another act of evil, in order to correct it? Yet that is often quoted as the reason.

By the way, the context of that is the flood of Noah's day. The reason for the flood of Noah's day, according to the Bible, was that God felt sorry and grieved that He had created mankind and He decided to not only kill mankind but to wipe off the face of the Earth animals and creatures that move along the ground and the birds of the air, everything. Now doesn't that sound like a person just in a bit of a rage? (Laughter) Yeah, certainly does.

I think there's another verse here I wanted to read, Genesis 8 verse 21, it says this,

"The Lord smelled the pleasing aroma of a sacrifice that Noah had made of some clean animals and clean birds."

These are what Noah sacrificed to God, which by the way were already God’s, so I don't know why you have to sacrifice something that is already owned and provided by God. It doesn't make much sense, anyway, but let's go with it.

"Never again will I curse the ground because of man, even though every inclination of his heart is evil from childhood onwards."

God created you with every inclination of your heart evil from childhood onwards. What chance do you have? You might as well just give up now as far as I can say if that's the truth.

Mary: Channel 7's going to have a field day, baby. (Laughter)

Jesus: That doesn't worry me. Let's put it in context. I know that this presentation is going to get taken way out of context. (Laughter) And that's the way it goes, but all I'm doing is presenting some truth, that's all. The reality is that if God felt that making mankind was a mistake then He only needs to look at himself for making the mistake. (Laughter) He's the creator. It's like you creating a car and you realise, "Oh, wow, I forgot two wheels. That must be somebody else’s problem; I'm going to now burn the car and start again." Does that sound logical to you? Of course it isn't logical and it certainly not what an intelligent, universally intelligent being would do. Is it? (Laughs)

15. Emotional injuries impair our ability to identify illogical teachings about God

Participant: I haven't had any upbringing in the churches or anything like that, but how does an intelligent thinking minister stand in front of a group who have studied the Bible all their life and are so passionate, how do they intellectually jump over these massive contradictions and still stand there and say, with the absolute passion and sincerity of their heart, "This is the truth"? How do they do that?

Jesus: Well, it's interesting you asked the question, Peter, because I was an intelligent, thinking minister (Laughter) who actually did believe all of these things, and that's one of the experiences I put myself through in this life, embarrassingly so. The reality is childhood emotions play a much bigger part on everything you accept than you can imagine. Belief systems and acceptable belief systems are easy to overlook because of different emotions that you feel.

So for example, I believed, through my emotional injuries from my parents, exactly the same as my father: While it was right for me to be a pacifist, God was going to do my punishing for me. So for every person who treated me badly, God would deal with them at some point in the future and that was my safety. That was my solace.

This is the problem; many of the people teaching these things are sincere, I'm not questioning their sincerity, but I am questioning the fact that they are not thinking or feeling with clarity. There is no logic in their thinking or feeling, which tends to suggest to me that they still have emotions that come from an unloving environment in their own life that cause them to assimilate these belief systems.

15.1. Barriers in our souls to truth and error

Jesus: Now if we can describe it like this: This is your soul, your soul has a pristine structure, and you've got sort of like a shell around the outside of your soul that's based upon love. In other words, anything that enters your soul has to be loving before it can enter it. This is the way God originally created us, and it is the way that every child who is conceived first enters this physical universe. If that's the way it is, if any untruth comes towards that soul, what will happen to it? It will just bounce off and have no effect whatsoever. It won't enter that soul.

Love creates a barrier preventing untruths from entering our soul

Remember the problem we have when we first come to the Earth is that we have no conscious way of determining this love, and it feels bad, but we have no conscious way of determining the difference. Consciousness grows over a period of time, so therefore right at the time of conception, because of the undeveloped mind and the undeveloped logic that is in that child, there is no way of logically determining or separating untruth from truth aside from the feeling of it entering you. There's no other way of determining.

So what happens is that over periods of time, the love barrier, if you like, get's broken down through this process of assimilation of the environment, assimilating the world’s definition of God, the world’s definition of love and so forth. Now we now have a lot of fear, which is the barrier to our soul. Now what can enter us? A false belief comes along that is based upon fear and where does it go? Straight in, without resistance. Now we have a false belief that was allowed to enter our soul through the fear that is now a part of our soul.

Fear within our soul allows false beliefs to enter it

This is why I said yesterday that you cannot become at-one with God without actually feeling through your terror and your fear, because it's your terror and your fear that prevent all true beliefs from entering you.

Fear is also a barrier to love. So when love tries to enter you, what happens? It bounces off. When truth tries to enter you, it bounces off.

Fear creates a barrier around our soul and love cannot enter

This is the case for every single person on the planet whether they are religious or not. These emotional concepts that were created through generations past begin to enter us as soon as we're conceived. They're initially painful perhaps, but they begin to grow within us because the fear just grows. We absorb the fear of our environment and in absorbing the fear of our environment we are automatically absorbing every single untruthful teaching of our environment as well. Automatically, it's like there is no resistance.

So now when I'm an adult, I get out a book like the Bible and I read concepts in the book, none of which don't appeal to me because my fear has dictated what my soul is now open to receiving. I read some words and I go, "Yes, I want God to come and punish the wicked. I'm not going to punish them because I'm a good person (Laughs) but I want God to do it for me. It’s God’s right. I believe God is the Creator, God has the will to take away life, give life, whatever." We don't question whether it's loving or not.

Participant: So is it like the seeds of those beliefs have already been planted and the environment just causes them to grow up?

Jesus: Exactly. Because we now have this openness due to the fear that has now entered our soul from our parents most probably, and also from our environment, we are predisposed to accepting fear-based teachings. We are also predisposed to rejecting love-based teachings.

Participant: But it must also be to filter out anything that doesn't line up with our preconceived ideas.

Jesus: That's correct.

Participant: Which is all of those things you've been reading out. All those statements, they just jump over those and say, "Oh I'll skip that."

Jesus: That's correct. What happened in my own life is I had to go through experiences that confronted me fully, emotionally, allowing me to see that, "Hang on a second; my boys don't even talk to me."

15.2. AJ’s personal experiences of identifying untruths taught about God

Jesus: At one point both my sons didn't even speak to me, and I didn't feel like punishing them. Now if I don't feel like punishing my own sons who wouldn't speak to me during that period of time, then surely God wouldn't punish me if I didn't speak to him. Then I started realising that my concept of love has been totally distorted by my environment. What I believed love to be is totally not what love is, and in fact I am actually more loving than what I believe God to be, which is just a totally crazy concept because love came from God for me to have it. So I'm actually believing that I'm more loving than God. This is the reason why a lot of people are atheists.

A lot of people are so-called infidels because they look at the religious viewpoint of God and they go, "Wow, if that's God, I don't want to know that God." Would you? No you wouldn't, but the problem is we do want to know that God, the God that's punishing and destroying, because we've already got this fear-based predisposition in our soul that we've absorbed from the environment that allows us to believe that concept of God, rather than the true concept of God.

Participant: So how long did it take you to unlearn all that crap?

Jesus: In terms of my concept of God, it took seven years for me in this life to unlearn all of that through a lot of personal experiences where I had to do a fair bit of grieving. In particular it was my relationship with my sons that helped me work through a lot of it in the sense that I started to see that I wouldn't treat my sons that way, so why would God treat me that way? I actually at one point in my life felt that God condemned me completely. That was the point in my life where if I had died, there would have been nobody at my funeral. I might have actually rotted away in my house because nobody would have found me. It would only be not paying the rent, which I used to pay three months in advance … so there wouldn't have been anybody who would have found me.

Participant: Someone would have smelt you.

Jesus: Yeah, somebody would have smelt me. (Laughter) During that time, I realised that a lot of my concepts of God that I had accepted was because of openness to fear, even though I always had a reasoning mind. I had this openness to false beliefs because of the fear that was in me, and as I released the fear more and more, I found that I could no longer accept those false beliefs. As a result, through this emotional process those false beliefs left me.

In the first century I didn't have to go through that process. It was a much more simple process and one that I hope one day almost everyone on the planet will go through, which will be a very gentle and simple process. But unfortunately in this day and age, how we're living, it's a very hard process because we have so much fear in us, and the fear predisposes us to false beliefs.

This is how a book can be written and compiled and accepted as God’s Word, even though it's clear that it is not talking about the God that we know. It's not talking about the real Creator, who obviously created loving systems for us to live in. If you look at everything that God has done, it's all pretty pristine. When man comes and touches it, then it gets damaged. And it's really the same with our soul – it was pristine before man touched it. As man touched it, it got firstly into the emotion of self-reliance and then gathered momentum from there. Every soul thereafter got touched or branded with that same brand, if you like, of fear. And that brand of fear has enabled false religious concepts to be perpetrated as God’s truth with the acceptance of billions of people.

Currently it is claimed, and not necessarily truthfully, that there are about one and a half billion Christians on the planet and something billion Muslims on the planet. These two religions believe in a holy book that they believe is God’s Word, and yet the concepts of God inside of those books are completely flawed. Therefore, they cannot be God’s Word; they have to be the word of men portrayed as God’s Word. And why would men do that? I can see only one motive and that is control. Unfortunately we have a predisposition to these false beliefs and I am not exempt from this predisposition. I had the same predisposition as you, the same predisposition. In fact many of you have less of a predisposition than I had to accepting these false beliefs.

15.3. Receiving God’s Love with false beliefs about God

Participant: How is it then that the people who go along to the Churches and speak in tongues and do all the praying and are part of that system, how is it that they still manage to receive God’s Divine Love when they're so off the track in their belief system?

Jesus: Well, they manage to do that because sometimes they connect to love and sometimes they don't. Eventually they get to a point where they stagnate. It's a bit like whenever you have a sincere, earnest, longing for love, you will receive it no matter what denomination you are, what religion you are, what background you come from, what politics you have. None of that matters, it only matters that you have a sincere, open longing for God’s Love – then it will enter you. It's not based on your religion. That's why many people from many different religions have received the same, but talking in tongues is not proof of receiving God. Talking in tongues is about talking with spirits or having spirits talking through you, and that's a completely different process. That's just being totally open to spirit influence, which many of you here are, in the same manner that many people in a Pentecostal Church are. And that's not the same thing. However, we can all receive love when we're in any walk of life, but that doesn't prove that the walk of life we're living is completely the truth. It only proves that in that moment we have a sincere longing for God, that's all it proves.

Mary: Many of our belief systems are still really up the creek as well, and yet we have received love.

Jesus: Receiving Divine Love is a gradual process. You don't have to clear away all of your false beliefs to receive love; eventually you will, but you don't have to initially. God’s not saying, "You all have to be perfect and then I'll give you my love." That's not how it works, that's one of our false beliefs again. That's our false belief that it's only when we're perfect that we get approval, it's only when we're perfect that we get love. Where did we learn that false belief? Again, our environment, but it's also in the Bible.

A lot of the books created by society have been created and allowed to be perpetrated because we already have these false beliefs, coming from fear-based beliefs inside of us, that cause us to have an openness and a predisposition to those false beliefs. This is why a book can be written that millions or billions of people follow without question. That's how it can occur. But we do want to question. God in fact created a logical brain - to a degree because it is very much emotional influenced, for you to question, to examine and work out things, that's the purpose for it.

15.4. False beliefs about God enter us from our environment even if we’re not religious

Participant: I didn't grow up with a religion at all. I think you said that even if you didn't grow up in a religion you can still have Christian beliefs. So would that be like myself, as well?

Jesus: Yeah.

Participant: Yeah okay. (Laughs)

Jesus: Well, one of the beliefs is that God is a punishing God, that's what you used to believe isn't it?

Participant: I think I still believe that. Yeah.

Jesus: Yeah, and where does that come from? Can you see it comes from your family?

Participant: Yeah.

Jesus: There is this belief in your family that if you're having pain then you're getting punished, and if you're getting punished then you must have done something wrong.

Participant: Yeah, okay. Cool.

Jesus: They are all these Christian beliefs. Now when I say they are the Christian beliefs, they're not just the Christian beliefs, Judaism has the same set of beliefs. The Muslim religion has the same set of beliefs basically. The reason we all have the same set of beliefs is because we had that emotional openness before the religion even came along. Before it was even created we had an emotional openness because of the fear of our parents and the damage that fear did to our soul; we have an emotional openness, a predisposition to accepting fear-based beliefs.

16. False teachings about karma

Participant: My question is around the Middle Eastern Law of Karma. I went through a phase in my life where I invested a lot of faith in that all because I was receiving a lot of anger from someone and I chose to follow the path of truth and peace.

Jesus: So your belief of karma was...?

Participant: That I wouldn't fight back, I'd just choose my path and that karma would sort things out for me.

Jesus: How about I put it this way: What goes around comes around. (Laughs)

Participant: That's right. I thought, "Well, okay, I'm surrendering to this, so I'm going to allow it to continue. I'm not going to fight.” I thought if I just follow my truth and choose the peaceful option then karma will come back. I was really struggling with it, big time.

Jesus: Yeah, of course.

Participant: But I had a lot of faith in that.

Jesus: Because it feels unjust and unpleasant while you're going through it all. And you had no control.

Participant: You're not taking any control of it.

Jesus: You’re also not seeing that it's a Law of Attraction upon your own soul, based on your own soul’s unhealed emotion. You're not seeing that you're continually creating it either.

Participant: No, that's right. So I guess now on reflection, is karma a misinterpretation of the soul’s Law of Attraction?

Jesus: It's a misinterpretation of "what you sow you reap," in the sense that it's a punishment-based interpretation of that law. The truth is that what you sow you will reap, but often we imply that to others and not ourselves: "What you sow you will reap, what I sow you will reap, too." (Laughter) That's what we do.

Participant: I also understood that a lot of it was my karma and I thought, "Okay I'm just going to take it and deal with that."

Jesus: But not understanding that you could release the underlying cause.

Participant: Yeah.

Jesus: Some of the New Age philosophies are improvements on different things, but some of them actually help you skip over personal responsibility. They help you skip over developing in love and working through your own emotional injuries. They help you intellectualise the process so that you can avoid the emotion. So you start to become no longer honest about your own emotional feelings, about what's happening.

At times when you're being attacked, the majority of you still feel this is unfair, this is unjust, you feel like attacking back, you feel like defending yourself. All of those emotions are present. I'm suggesting to you when you've received God’s Love more, none of those emotions will be present. You won't feel any of those things.

Participant: So, in effect there's evidence for karma. People see it, but really all it is, is that person’s Law of Attraction coming back to them. And I stood back and thought, "Oh that's karma."

Jesus: Yeah. We call it karma and karma is this principle of "what you sow you reap." "What goes around comes around" does occur to a degree, but unfortunately we have a lot of emotional investment in it. We want what goes around to come around to the people who did it to us. We don't want what goes around to come around to what we did to others. So we are often very hypocritical in the way we apply a law. God is not hypocritical; the law applies across the board without partiality, with equality, but when we apply the law we often do it with partiality and no equality.

I was talking to a group of spirits a few weeks ago and it was an interesting conversation. I think this one might be on the Internet. It was the one where we were talking to three men at the same time. They were a group of men in the spirit world and they were in a rage with women, saying that it was their right to oppress women. They believed with all their hearts that women were animals in the spirit world. Many of you ladies would have been very hard pressed to do the channelling without getting upset. It was a credit to the three women who were present doing the channelling for these men, Mary, Jodie and Natalie, that they could stay in the space of accurately reflecting the emotions of the men involved. It was an interesting discussion because they believed that the law that applied to them didn't apply to women, because women were lesser, women were just animals anyway. The laws that applied to animals applied to women.

Participant: So if I was never outwardly angry, if I had a lot of anger within me that I was suppressing and I attract a person into my life that would project a lot of anger at me, is that right?

Jesus: No, it's more likely that fear in you would attract more anger from another person.

Participant: Yeah, that makes sense.

Jesus: A lot of New Age philosophy goes, "Oh you're getting angry because that's the anger in you." No, the emotions have to be sympathetic for it to be occurring. So the reality is, usually when we're receiving anger, it's because of our openness to receiving anger, which means that we are afraid of that kind of person who's giving us the anger. We are open to receiving it.

So if a woman's angry with us all the time, then we know we're open to receiving a woman’s anger. We think it's okay. If a man's angry towards us all the time, then we're open to receiving a man’s anger. The reality is, though, if we feel our emotions, we'd probably notice that we feel quite open to receiving anger from that person and not this person, and we'd quickly identify what gender it is, and we'd work through the emotion.

But let's talk about some more about God. Does everybody understand how our soul becomes predisposed to false beliefs about love, about God, and about truth?

17. False beliefs that God is absent and does not love us

Participant: I'm not sure how it is for everyone else, but with regards to how our emotional set from our parents that we project on God and in regards to God and love, I can't quite draw the connection for myself. When things are going well, when I've been processing well, I feel God, I feel closer to God and everything’s great, but when things are tough and when I really need God’s help, God seems the farthest away.

Jesus: Okay, so let's look at this emotionally. Many of you feel this: When I need God, God goes AWOL, absent without leave. This is a very common thing that happens inside of us.

Now what we begin with is the assumption that God is not loving, still. And when we begin with that assumption, we're assuming God's gone AWOL. We're assuming that when I need God, God's not there. God's only there when I don't need God. We're assuming that's a truth. The reality is that actually God is there more when you need God than when you don't. However, when we have a feeling of I need God, there is usually an underlying emotion, condition, or belief that is false that has to be confronted, and the only way it is going to be confronted is if you feel like God's not there. Do you understand? That's the only way you're going to get into this emotion.

So God's right there, but God can't give you the emotions you think you want while those emotions are based on an addiction to some false belief within you. God is right there saying, "Come on David, come on David, I'm right here, you've just got to believe that. You've just got to trust that instead of feeling it, because you can't feel it at the moment because of the emotion you have. Just feel this emotion, because this emotion is blocking you from having a closer relationship with me." That's really what God's saying in that particular example, but unfortunately many of us think the opposite. We think God's gone missing somehow. God's not there anymore and then we even feel a lack of faith, we don't believe that God's with us anymore and we get angry and upset that God's not with us. "Why are you only with us when we're connected to you? Why are you not with us when we're not connected to you?" not understanding that it's something within our own soul that causes the disconnection, not something within God's soul.

We assume it's something in God’s Soul that causes the connection because we believe in a punishing God. If we didn't believe in a punishing God, we wouldn't automatically assume that when we can't feel God it has to do with God being upset or something. We wouldn't automatically assume that. We would assume that it has to be something within ourselves, wouldn't we? The fact that we assume it is God that's gone missing, rather than ourselves that's gone missing, tells us that we have a false belief about God that needs correction. If it doesn't get correction, it's going to prevent us from getting closer to God.

In the end when we are at-one with God, we will not only have God's beliefs about ourselves – to be at-one with God, you must believe what God believes about you – but also you will have God’s Beliefs about God, and all of those beliefs have to be confronted to become at-one with God. If one of those beliefs is, "Any time I'm in trouble, you leave me" – which is a false belief because God doesn't leave you in that time – there's something else going on instead.

Participant: So I could use the trust that I have when I feel God is there to trust that even though I don't feel God there, that God is there and can help me through it.

Jesus: Exactly. And there is just an emotion in you that prevents you from feeling God at that moment, an emotion that God is trying to help you address so that you can feel God better. See, we don't trust that God is good, do we? What is it in Arabic? In Ala Acba, "God is good." We don't believe God is good. We believe God’s punishing, cruel, violent; these are things we believe because that's what our parents, through their fear, predisposed us to believe.

Participant: I don't believe that God could love me.

Jesus: Exactly, you don't believe God is good, because God would love all of her children. So why wouldn't She love you? And because we don't believe God loves us, we believe there must either be something wrong with us – but God created everything right with us, so that doesn't make much sense – or we believe there must be something wrong with God.

Now some of us prefer that there has to be something wrong with God; others of us prefer that it must be something wrong with us. And this is where all these predispositions towards the false beliefs come from, "You are sinners, all of you, and you were born sinners and you'll die sinners." What did I say earlier? Where did that come from? Genesis 8, 21 wasn't it?

"Never again shall I curse the ground because of man even though every inclination of his heart is evil from childhood."

We accept that belief because we believe that about ourselves already. By the time we get to two years of age most of us already believe that because most of us are being taught that by our parents. "You evil little..." And most of the time a swear word or two accompanies it "What did you do that for? What's wrong with you? There's something wrong with you inside of you!" It's got nothing to do with the parent, of course. But it's the same principle, blaming the child for the parent’s rage and then causing the child to feel that it's evil when it wasn't.

So we've grown up with these emotions, feeling these things, believing this is God’s Opinion of us and we've got to accept it. The principle that you all need to be ransomed from your sin is based on the fact that you're all evil and terrible and need to be condemned. Another field day with that statement. (Laughs)

The reality is God is not like this. God is not the God that we have come to accept Him to be, and it's because we've come to accept God to be this cruel, punishing, vindictive, petty being that we don't want to connect with Her. But God's not like that. God is totally different to that. We need to allow ourselves to see the truth of that.

18. Different teachings about God leading us into temptation and testing us

Jesus: Let's have a look at another one, this time in the first book of James. James is in the New Testament, by the way; let's start at verse 12:

"Blessed is the man who perseveres under trial, because when he has stood the test, he will receive the crown of life that God has promised to those who love Him. When tempted, no one should say, 'God is tempting me,’ for God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does He tempt anyone, but each one is tempted when he by his own evil desire, is dragged away and enticed. Then after the desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin and sin when it is full grown gives birth to death."

Now that is a truth. The truth is that God doesn't tempt us. God is not trying to test us with evil. What causes us to conceive sin is our own desires that are inside of us; because we have the emotional predisposition to those desires and because of the fear that we have, that causes us to then conceive sin. We go ahead and do what we desire, which is often in the wrong direction, and that's what causes our pain and eventually even our physical bodies’ death.

The reality is many of us should be living much longer than we're currently living, but we can't because of the desire that was out of harmony with love that gave birth to the sin. That was out of harmony with love, and that ended up with the destruction of our own physical body as a result. It's a course of action that we took that resulted in our own death. God isn't tempting us with evil or anything like that. So that is a truth.

By the way, the Koran says a similar thing in one place and then in another place in 2 verses 2-7 it says totally the opposite statement,

"Allah keeps people in darkness and prolongs the darkness."

Let's look at this one. This one was meant to have been said by me, Matthew chapter 6 verse 13, The Lord’s Prayer. The last line of it says,

"And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil."

So that implies that God leads us into temptation and we have to pray that he doesn't, does it not? So in one verse it says that God doesn't lead us by anything that's evil and another verse, said to be my own verse, says that God does lead us into temptation and we have to pray to God so that God doesn't lead us into temptation. No wonder people are confused, hey?

Now for this reason, many people coined the term that God tests me. You've heard of that? It's total crap.

God never tests you. We are often put to the test by the evil that surrounds us; it's the evil that actually tests us. Without the evil, all of us would find it very much less difficult to live a loving life, but because of the evil that surrounds us and the fear-based propositions that we have – not only on the Earth but a lot of spirits are in an evil state, too – because that evil surrounds us it is very difficult for us to live a love-based life.

God is not testing you, but these other people want you to get into an unloving space. They're the ones who are testing you because the reality is that anybody who is loving would never design a test for you, they would always be trying to assist you to do what is good. That's the reality and God is good. Therefore God is not designing a system to test you, but there are many dark spirits and people on Earth who are totally willing to test you and test your resolve towards truth, test your resolve to love, but they are not and do not have anything to do with God.

Participant: Can we truly be tested though by a dark spirit or a dark person if we were strong in our love?

Jesus: Exactly. There's no way that it would even feel to be a test unless there was something inside of myself that was fear-based, rather than love-based that could be tested. So the law that operates to bring this evil person into my life that allows the test, which is the Law of Attraction, is operating because of an emotion inside of myself. Were did the emotion inside of myself come from again?

From my environment and my parents and what I grew up with. So it's not even my fault that it's happening but I do need to address it, I do need to deal with it.

19. Kinesiology calibration of different spiritual teachings

Participant: Just a little bit of trivia. Before we met you we calibrated everything we ever read. The Bible calibrates around 650, the Quran around 800.

Jesus: So 650 for the Bible?

Participant: Yes.

Jesus: The Quran around 800.

Participant: Now we would never read anything that calibrated in the 600's. That's because it's got so many discrepancies and so they balance each other out.

Jesus: This is when you were doing kinesiology testing on it?

Participant: Yes.

Jesus: Can I suggest that some of your testing about the Bible was about your emotions as well, by the way?

Participant: Right.

Jesus: I would actually put them both lower than that on the scale of truth. Did you ever test the New Testament versus the Old Testament?

Participant: Yes we did and we got a difference. There are some things you can do by taking some stuff out of the Bible and it comes up to about 800 like the Quran.

Jesus: Yes, exactly, so different things come in, go out, and all of a sudden things are different.

Participant: Things like Eckhart Tolle and David Hawkins calibrate in the 800's and 900's.

Jesus: Yes.

Participant: And then when we started to calibrate your work, your presentations, we realised that anything that was Divine Truth and Divine Love, calibrates over 1000.

Jesus: Always.

Participant: Always, and most of the talks are around the 1500.

Jesus: Yes, that is great. It will be greater as we go along as we present more and more things and as myself and Mary get into more truth ourselves.

Participant: It will be interesting because we actually haven't calibrated any of this year’s work.

Jesus: Yes.

20. Different teachings about God allowing bad things to happen to us

Jesus: Let's read another one from the lovely Bible that we have here.

"One day the angels came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan also came with them."

This is the Satan, by the way, who God created to test you.

"The Lord said to Satan, ‘Where have you come from?’ Satan answered the Lord, ‘From roaming through the Earth and going to and fro in it.’ And the Lord said to Satan, ‘Have you considered my servant, Job? There is no one like him on the Earth, he is blameless and upright, a man who fears God and shuns evil.’ Satan says, ‘Does Job fear God for nothing? Have you not put a hedge around him and his household and everything he has? You have blessed the work of his hands, so that his flocks and herds are spread throughout the land, but stretch out Your hand and strike everything he has and he will surely curse You to Your face.’

“The Lord said to Satan, ‘Very well then, everything he has is in your hands, but on the man himself do not lay a finger.’ And then Satan went out of the presence of the Lord.”

Do you know what happened next? The first thing Satan so-called did was arrange for the attack of Job's entire family. He put every single servant to death, then he arranged another attack of the entire family, then all of Job's livestock were destroyed. Then he arranged another attack where a wind came from the desert and collapsed on the house while all of Job's children were in it. They all died; only Job and his wife survived. This is a very loving God that we have arranged for the test of Job.

Now I put to you that the test of Job never occurred by God. And the Bible doesn't say it does, the Bible says that Satan did it, but according to the Bible, God allowed Satan to do it, and that's not the case either. There is no Satan, so you can't allow somebody who doesn't exist to do something. (Laughs)

That is going to challenge many people with false beliefs, is it not? That there is no Satan – that's a huge concept that we hold onto in Christian faith and in other faiths, too. It's not true, but getting back to the issue with God, God does not allow or condone or accept anything bad that happens to you, as if it were His Purpose, because none of it needs to happen.

The reality is that it does happen, not only because of our own choices but also because of the evil choices and the fear-based choices of those around us. Those choices all come from fear that has entered our soul and that have allowed us to have a predisposition to treating other people badly. That's where it all comes from. Not from God, but again, this world’s definition of God gets put upon us and we end up with this belief system that is so entwined with false beliefs about God that none of us want to know God. We end up wanting to reject God and push God away from us because of all these belief systems, and that's the terrible, unfortunate truth.

21. Conclusions

Jesus: Now I could go on for hours and hours and hours quoting different verses about God’s Nature, but what I'm trying to illustrate to you in this particular discussion about the world’s definition of God is this.

21.1. The world is full of contradictions about God

Jesus: Firstly the world is full of contradictions about God. That is a statement of truth. Any atheist would probably agree with me that the world is full of contradictions about God.

21.2. False beliefs are allowed to enter the soul because of fear in the soul

Jesus: Secondly, these beliefs are allowed to enter the soul because of fear in the soul. It's the fear in our soul that allows false beliefs about God to enter our soul and then allows for us to live the rest of our life like that.

I'm not immune to the control of fear. While fear is within me, I am going to absorb those beliefs. My own personal life has been like that. I accepted the Bible as God’s Word completely at one point in my life, and the reason is that I had a predisposition to accepting fear-based beliefs and to accepting unloving beliefs because of the fear that was within my soul. I came up with all these intellectual justifications. I heard many of them and I came up with many of my own in order to maintain those belief systems rather than deal with the fear that was in my soul.

And then God in Her Infinite Wisdom and Love took me through a process, a process that begins through the Law of Attraction, a law God made to expose truth to us. God took me through this process and eventually I became willing to engage. Once I became willing to engage that process, the fear in my soul got exposed and then I physically worked through this fear. I went through lots of different emotions of fear and came out the other end, and when I came out the other end, no longer could these false beliefs, these world’s definitions of God, enter me anymore. The same thing can happen to you if you deal with your fear, if you work through your fear.

21.2.1. False beliefs about the rapture

Participant: How does it work with the Christian belief we will be left behind when Jesus comes? That you are going to take us all …

Jesus: … with the rapture?

Participant: Yes.

Jesus: Yes. This is based on the belief that some of us are more acceptable than others and it is based on what we do, not on what we feel. It is a belief if you do the right thing you will be rewarded and if you don't do the right thing, you won't be. This belief is very prevalent in human society. We have to do the right thing; if we don't do the right thing we get punished and if we do the right thing we get rewarded. So it is like the carrot and the stick. You could basically say this whole belief system entered the Bible through the principle of the carrot and the stick that all of us have inbuilt because of the fear-based belief systems that we have.

Participant: Yes for me it was "Just be a good little boy and sit and be quiet in Church."

Jesus: Exactly.

Participant: And I could feel it from my Mum all the time, this real big fire and brimstone and all that.

Jesus: Exactly. Fear perpetrates a false belief entering us and then we become so attached to it we can't give it up. I've been a good little boy, when is my reward? It's gotten to this place that there is no reward in just being a good boy. We have to have some kind of additional reward. There's no reward in itself, just being good, we have to have some kind of external thing occur that makes it better.

But if you can understand these few things from our discussion: Firstly, the world is full of contradictions about God. It's no wonder most of the world is confused about whether God even exists or not because we're full of contradictions about God. Secondly, these contradicting beliefs are allowed to enter the soul because of our fear predisposing our soul to the belief entering it. That is the reason why these beliefs enter our soul.

21.3. We need God’s Truth and God’s Love to remove all fear-based beliefs

Jesus: Thirdly, we need God’s Truth and God’s Love to remove all fear-based beliefs. Without the assistance of God’s Truth and God’s Love entering our soul, it's going to be very difficult for us to determine what is a fear-based belief and what is a truth. It's only by having truth confront the fear and having love confront all of the unworthiness and grief within us that we can actually remove these fear-based beliefs from ourselves. Until that time, unfortunately, the world’s definition of God is going to have its little tentacles into us in every aspect of our life. This is what we need to understand – that even right now the majority still have these tentacles affecting our relationship with God.

In the past when I've given talks about relationship with God, there have usually been fewer people at those talks than any other talk, with the exception of parenting talks, which is interesting because the two issues are related, parenting and God. God being our parent is very much related, of course. I find it so fascinating because one is linked to the other inseparably so, it seems sometimes, and yet it's because we are imposing the parental belief systems on God that we are now susceptible to all of these fear-based beliefs about God that are not true. Even our desire to punish ourselves comes from some of these beliefs, our desire to punish others comes from these beliefs, our desire or our belief that we can't cope with emotion comes from these beliefs. Our belief that God didn't create us perfect comes from these beliefs. There are so many beliefs.

21.3.1. The real Lord’s Prayer

Jesus: If you read the true Lord’s Prayer that we've provided you, many of the things that are listed confront the beliefs about God.

"My father who is in heaven, I recognise that You are all holy and loving and merciful."

Well, most of us don't feel that. We feel that God is loving and merciful sometimes and punishing other times.

"and that I am Your child, not the subservient, sinful and depraved creature that the false teachers would have me believe."

Can you see if you read a verse like Genesis 8:21, then of course you're going to believe God is telling you you're a sinful, depraved creature from the time of your birth onward, so there's nothing else to believe, is there?

"I know that I am the greatest of Your creations ..."

How many of us know that, really? We don't know that, we think we're not the greatest of God’s creations. Half the time we think of ourselves as mongrels or even worse.

"… and the most wonderful of all Your handiworks, the object of Your Great Soul’s Love and Tenderest Care."

Now how many of us believe that God actually cares for us tenderly all the time? It's like when David asked that question about "I feel like when I need God, God’s deserted me." This is what we really believe most of the time, that God deserts us, but in the prayer it's saying that God has the tenderest care for us.

"I know that Your Will is that I become at-one with You and partake of Your Great Love, which You have bestowed upon me through Your Mercy and Desire that I become in truth Your Child through love and not through the sacrifice and death of any of Your Creatures.

“I pray that you will open up my soul to the inflowing of Your Love and that then will come to me Your Holy Spirit to bring into my soul, this Your Divine Love in great abundance, until my soul is transformed into the very essence of yourself and that there will come to me faith, such faith as will cause me to realise that I am truly Your Child and at-one with You in very substance, not image only."

Most of us don't have that kind of faith yet, faith that we even have the possibility of becoming at-one with God. I still hear many of you saying things like, "Ah, yes, I'm full of fear, but I probably will be for the rest of my life." Why would you believe such a false thing? You're not going to be full of fear for the rest of your life if you release your fear. Many of you feel, "I'm probably never going to become at-one with God while I'm on Earth." Why would you believe such a false thing? The possibility is for you to become at-one with God while you're on Earth. Why would you believe anything else? Because we just don't have the faith and unfortunately because we don't have faith, we then don't carry out what we need to carry out to stop blocking God’s Love from entering us. We are unwilling to confront the emotions within us because of that lack of faith.

"Let me have such faith that will cause me to know …"

not just think but know,

"… that You are my Father and the bestower of every good and perfect gift and that only I myself can prevent Your Love from changing me from the mortal to the immortal."

We still have this tendency to go down the track of thinking that God is punishing somehow, or God is withdrawing Her Love from us somehow, or God is trying to slow us down, or God is not really with us at the time God is with us, or God doesn't want us to become immortal as She is, or God doesn't give us every good gift and every perfect present. We feel that when we ask for love, God's going to give us a snake instead, but it's only the cruellest of humankind that would do that. Yet we attribute that to God, too.

"Let me never cease to realise that Your Love is waiting for each and all of us and that when I come to You in faith and earnest aspiration, Your Love will never be withheld from me."

If it feels like faith is being withheld from me, that is just not true. Love is never withheld from us, God’s Love is never withheld; it's only we ourselves that can prevent its entry. So if it's not entering us, we need to look at ourselves, not to God; we need to look at what blockages we have within ourselves and do it in a way that we realise we are the greatest of God’s Creation, not the worst of it, and we have a capacity to change.

"Keep me in the shadow of Your Love every hour and moment of my life and help me to overcome all of the temptations of the flesh and the influence of the powers of the evil ones who so constantly surround me and endeavour to turn my thoughts away from You to the allurements and pleasures of the world."

So you see the prayer actually defines who tests us. It's got nothing to do with God, it's got everything to do with the evil that surrounds us and our own desires that are imperfect in nature, because of the fear that's already entered us.

"I thank You for Your Love and the privilege of receiving it and I believe that You are my Father, the Loving Father who smiles upon me in my weakness and is always ready to help me and take me into Your Arms of Love."

When your Mum and Dad saw that you were weak, what did they do? Would they smile upon you in your weakness? When people today see that you're weak, what do they do? They turn up the pressure don't they, generally? They want you to be in a different place generally. But God looks upon our weakness and loves us still and is just waiting for us to want to have the earnest desire to correct any weakness.

And it finishes by saying,

"I pray this with all the earnestness and sincere longings of my soul and trusting in Your Love give you all the glory and honour and love that my finite soul can give."

Part of the reason I've had this discussion with you this weekend about love, yesterday on the world’s definition of love and today on the world’s definition of God, is because we still don't trust much yet. We don't trust love and we don't trust God, and we need to understand the reasons we don't. The reasons we don't are because we've assimilated and imbibed the world’s belief systems about love and we've assimilated and imbibed the world’s belief systems about God. So it's gotten to this point now where we can't trust God or love in our lives, and we don't trust the process that God wants us to follow to get closer to him. We often feel resistive to it.

22. Closing words

Jesus: What we wanted to do over the coming months, when we get the opportunities, is to talk more with you about your relationship with God and your feelings of love that come from within you, and help you come to trust love more as being the most powerful substance in the universe, the most powerful feeling in the universe.

We want to also help you come to see that your Father and Mother, your true Father and Mother, not the ones that are on Earth, but your true parent, God, loves you dearly and with passion and She wants you to have this close relationship with Her if that is your desire, if that is what you long for. You don't have to long for it. She's not saying you have to, but if it is your desire, She wants you to come to understand that She is a loving God and She has loving desires for you and has these plans for you for your soul that at this point you cannot imagine. You can't imagine because you've yet to experience them, so you cannot even conceive what the possibilities are even on this Earth.

So what we'd like to do is encourage you to start confronting within yourself the world’s definition of things compared to God’s definition of things. We'd like to encourage you to stop accepting the world’s definition of things and start to deal with the fears and terrors within you that allow you to accept the world’s definition of things and that block you from God’s definition of things. In particular, start accepting God’s definition of Herself and God’s definition of love. If you do that you are going to have far more joy in your life on a day-to-day basis than many of you are currently experiencing.

Well I'd like to leave the discussion there if I could. We'd like to thank you for your time guys and we look forward to catching up with you some time over the next couple of months. Thank you. (Applause)

Relationship With God - The World’s Definition Of God Outline

Introduction

Discussion about some of the contradictions in holy books about God, although not exhaustive

Discussion about whether we can trust the holy books as God’s Word

If a book does not accurately describe God’s Nature, then it cannot be trusted as God’s Word, even if it does contain some truths

If a book does not accurately describe God’s Nature, then it cannot be used in a logical discussion about the truth about the Universe or about God

If we base the analysis of holy books on love, we can see where the error lies

Holy books such as the Bible have created the world’s definition of God on Earth

These teachings cause confusion on Earth about God

It’s impossible to put the infinite Truth of God into one book

The world’s definition of God defines our current relationship with God

I.e. our relationship is controlled by our unhealed emotions about God that we absorbed from our parents and the environment in which we grew up

If we think we know what God is then we would already be at-one with God

We can only learn about God and understand God by receiving Divine Love

Reasons for false teachings about God in the Bible

The emotions that children have towards their parents are imposed upon God

For this reason we can accept teachings in the Bible about God where God is portrayed similar to our parents

E.g. The Bible portrays God as a genocidal maniac who has murdered over 2.4 million people

E.g. The Bible portrays God as worse than any person on Earth

E.g. The Bible portrays God as selfish, petty, unforgiving, unmerciful and unloving

Discovering the Truth about God

Scientific methods and logic can be used to discover the truth about God

Logic can be used to determine the truth about God

E.g. if God is intelligent enough to know how to create my body, and has given me love, then surely that God must have more love then me and be more intelligence than me

E.g. if I know that murder is wrong, then God must know that murder is wrong

Logic needs to be applied without emotional filters

E.g. we need to not impose parental emotions upon God

E.g. believing that we have more love than God does is not logical

E.g. Contradictions in the Bible about God’s nature

Truth: 1 John 4:8 “Whoever does not love does not know God because God is Love”

Error: 2 Thessalonians 1: 6-10 “All this is evidence that God’s judgement is right, and as a result you’ll be counted worthy of the Kingdom of God, for which you are suffering. God is just, He will pay back trouble to those who trouble you, and give relief to you who are troubled, and to us as well. This will happen when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven in blazing fire with his powerful angels. He will punish those who do not know God, and do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. They will be punished with everlasting destruction and shut out from presence of the Lord and the majesty of His Power, on the day He comes to be glorified in His holy people and to be marvelled at among those that have believed.”

I.e. God will punish all the people who don’t accept God and don’t accept God’s Truth

I.e. teaches that God will torture us for the rest of our existence

Error: Exodus 21: 17 “Anyone who curses His Father or Mother must be put to death.”

Logic dictates that if God is better than every person on Earth, and one person on Earth would not punish and torture us for an eternity, then logic dictates that God would not

Different teachings on Earth about God’s Nature

New Age concepts of God

Teaches, “I am God” “God is energy” “God is the Universe”

Not a logical teaching

Originates from Eastern philosophies

Bible concepts of God

The Bible teaches that God is an entity (there is a personage of God), and that God speaks in some manner

Originates from angry and punishing parental emotions

Such teachings by religions were created to control people and to create self-reliance

The Truth about God

God is an entity with characteristics and attributes, the greatest of which, as is currently known, is Love

If God created the Universe, God must be greater than the infinite universe in order to create the universe

God is infinitely just, infinitely loving, infinitely understanding, infinitely intelligent, infinitely wise

It is impossible to describe God until we engage the process of getting to know God by receiving Divine Love and reaching at-onement

While God’s Energy flows through us, it is not logical to state that “I am God” or “God is me”

Different teachings about God giving us free will

New Age concepts of God

God gave us free will

Consequences of using our free will unlovingly is called “karma”

Bible concepts of God

Truth: Galatians 6:7 “Do not be deceived. God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows. The one who sows to please his sinful nature from that nature will reap destruction. The one who sows to please the spirit from that spirit will reap eternal life.”

I.e. there are consequences if we do follow our own will

Error: John 6:38 quote from Jesus: “For I have come down from heaven not to do my will, but to do the will of Him who sent me.”

I.e. we do not have free will

The Truth about God

God gave us free will, and every action that we take in harmony with love has a positive consequence on our soul and every action that we take out of harmony with love has a negative consequence on our soul

This can be tested by exercising our free will negatively and seeing whether we are punished

Different teachings about God’s location and nature

Bible concepts of God

Truth: I Timothy 6:15-16 “God the blessed and only Ruler, the King of kings and Lord of lords, who alone is immortal, and who lives in unapproachable light who no one has seen or can see. To Him be the honour and might forever.”

I.e. God is the loving Universal Ruler, immortal, and lives outside of the Universe

Error: “God will punish those who do not know God and do not obey the gospel of Lord Jesus. They will be punished with everlasting destruction and shut out from the presence of God.”

I.e. God is a murderer and punisher

A belief driven by anger with people and wanting to punish others

The Truth about God

God is the loving Universal Ruler, immortal, and lives outside and independent of the Universe

God existed before the Universe was created

God does not punish

God’s Laws have consequences, and are not punishing

Different teachings about God’s Mercy and Wrath

Bible concepts of God

Truth: Luke 6:35-36 Jesus said, “But love your enemies and do good to them, and lend to them without expecting to get anything back. Then your reward will be great and you will be sons of the most High, because He is kind to the ungrateful and wicked. Be merciful just as your Father is merciful.”

I.e. God is loving and merciful

Error: Deuteronomy 13 “If you hear it is said about one of the towns, the Lord your God is giving you to live in that wicked men have arisen among you and have led the people of their own town astray saying, ‘Let’s go and worship other gods’, gods you have not known, then you must enquire, probe and investigate it thoroughly. And if it is true and it has been proved that this detestable thing has been done among you, you must certainly put to the sword all who live in that town. Destroy it completely; both it’s people and it’s livestock. Gather all the plunder of the town into the middle of the public square and completely burn the town and all of its plunder as a whole burnt offering to your Lord, your God. It is to remain a ruin forever, never to be rebuilt. None of those condemned things should be found in your hands so that the Lord will turn from his fierce anger and He will show you mercy and have compassion on you and increase your numbers, as He promised in an oath to your forefathers because you obeyed the Lord God, keeping all of his commands that I am giving you today and doing what is right in His Eyes.”

I.e. it is teaching to be a criminal against humanity

The Truth about God

God is loving and merciful

Different teachings about God’s Perfect Creations

Bible concepts of God

Truth: Romans 11. Paul said, “The depth of the riches and wisdom of God, how unsearchable His judgments and His paths beyond tracing out. Who is known in the mind of the Lord, who has been His counsellor? Who has ever given to God that God should repay him? For from him and through him and to him are all things. To Him be the glory forever.”

Truth: 1 John 3:20 “God is greater than our hearts, and He knows everything.”

I.e. God never feels bad and never makes a mistake

Error: Genesis 6:7 “So the Lord said, ‘I will wipe out mankind, whom I have created, from the face of the Earth. Men and animals and creatures that move along the ground and birds of the air, for I am grieved that I made them.’”

An explanation for the flood of Noah’s time

Error: Genesis 8:21 “The Lord smelled the pleasing aroma of a sacrifice that Noah had made of some clean animals and clean birds. Never again will I curse the ground because of man even though every inclination of his heart is evil from childhood onwards.”

The Truth about God

All of God’s creations are perfect, so why would God be aggrieved that He made them?

God never feels bad and never makes a mistake

God created mankind perfect

It is not logical to say that God would blame mankind for errors in His Own Creation

Different teachings about God leading us into temptation and testing us

Bible concepts of God

Truth: James 1:12 “Blessed is the man who perseveres under trial because when he has stood the test he will receive the crown of life that God has promised to those who love Him. When tempted no one should say, ‘God is tempting me,’ for God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does he tempt anyone, but each one is tempted when he, by his own evil desire, is dragged away and enticed. Then after the desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin, and sin, when it is full grown gives birth to death.”

Truth: Matthew 6:13 the last line of the Lord’s Prayer, claimed to be taught by Jesus, “And lead us not into temptation but deliver us from evil.”

This implies that God does lead us into temptation

Koran concepts of God

The Koran says the same about God and temptation as the above James Bible passage, but contradicts itself in Koran 2:6-7 “Allah keeps people in darkness and prolongs the darkness.”

The Truth about God

God does not tempt us - we have predispositions to sin due to our emotional injuries, and that eventually causes our pain and physical body’s death

God never tests us

Only dark spirits and people on Earth test us

Different teachings about God allowing bad things to happen to us

Bible concepts of God

Error: Job 2:1-12 “One day the angels came to present themselves before the Lord and Satan also came with them. The Lord said to Satan, ‘Where have you come from?’ Satan answered the Lord, ‘From roaming through the Earth and going to and fro in it.’ Then the Lord said to Satan, ‘Have you considered my servant Job? There is no one like him. He is blameless and upright, a man who fears God and shuns evil. Satan says, ‘Does Job fear God for nothing? Have you not put a hedge around him, and has his house and his household and everything he has. You have blessed the work of his hands, so that his flocks and herds are spread throughout the land. But stretch out your hand and strike everything he has, and he will surely curse you to your face.’ The Lord said to Satan, ‘Very well then, everything he has is in your hands but on the man himself do not lay a finger.’ And then Satan went out from the presence of the Lord.” Satan then arranged for the attack of his entire family, one attack put every single servant to death, another attack destroyed all of his livestock, and then another attack where a wind came from the desert and the roof of the house collapsed and killed his children, and only Job and his wife survived.

The Truth about God

The test of Job never occurred by God and God did not allow it to happen

There is no Satan

God does not allow or condone or accept anything bad that happens to us as if it were His Purpose

Bad things happen because of our own choices and the evil choices of those around us

Conclusion

1.      The world is full of contradiction about God

2.      These beliefs are allowed to enter the soul because of fear in the soul

3.      We need God’s Truth and God’s Love to remove all fear-based beliefs

References, Music and Movies

Reference:      Divine Love “The True Gospel” Padgett Messages. All Volumes.

Reference:      Interview with Jesus - Luli Faber - God’s Attributes and Qualities S1 and S2

Reference:      Relationship with God - Eternal Benefits of a Relationship with God S1

The Real Lord’s Prayer

Our Father, Who is in Heaven, we recognize that You are All Holy and Loving and Merciful, and that we are Your Children, and not the subservient, sinful and depraved creatures that false teachers would have us believe. We know that we are the Greatest of Your Creations, and the Most Wonderful of all Your Handiworks, and the objects of your Great Soul’s Love and Tender Care.

We know that Your Will is that we become At-One with You and partake of Your Great Love which You have bestowed upon us through Your Mercy and desire that we become, in truth, Your Children through Love, and not through the sacrifice and death of any of Your Creatures.

We pray that You will open up our Souls to the inflowing of Your Love, and that then will come your Holy Spirit to bring into our Souls this, Your Divine Love, in Great Abundance, until our Souls are transformed into the Very Essence of Yourself; and that there will come to us Faith—such Faith as will cause us to realize that we are truly Your Children and one with You in Very Substance, and not in image only.

Let us have such Faith as will cause us to know that You are Our Father, and the Bestower of every Good and Perfect Gift, and that, only we ourselves, can prevent Your Love changing us from the mortal into the Immortal.

Let us never cease to realize that Your Love is waiting for each and all of us, and, that when we come to You, in Faith and Earnest Aspiration, Your Love will never be withheld from us.

Keep us in the shadow of Your Love every hour and moment of our lives, and help us to overcome all temptations of the flesh, and the influence of the powers of the evil ones who so constantly surround us and endeavour to turn our thoughts away from You to the pleasures and allurements of this world.

We thank You for Your Love and the privilege of receiving it, and we believe that You are Our Father - the Loving Father who smiles upon us in our weakness, and is always ready to help us and take us into Your Arms of Love.

We pray this with all the earnestness and sincere longings of our Souls, and, trusting in Your Love, give You all the Glory and Honour and Love that our finite souls can give.

AMEN.

Resources

For more information:

Divine Truth Website: divinetruth.com

Donate Divine Truth: https://www.divinetruth.com/sites/main/en/index.htm#donate.htm

Divine Truth YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/@Divinetruthmain

Divine Truth FAQ YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@divinetruthfaq/featured

Divine Truth Clips YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@Divinetruthclips/featured

Divine Truth Events: https://events.humanitix.com/host/divinetruth

Mary's Blog: mary.divinetruth.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

eBooks by Divine Truth including eBooks translated into a variety of different languages:

https://www.smashwords.com/profile/view/DivineTruth

God's Way: https://blog.godsway.net/

Donate God’s Way: https://blog.godsway.net/donations/

Reminder From Jesus & Mary

Jesus and Mary would like to remind you that any document produced by Divine Truth containing any information from Jesus, Mary or any other person includes only a portion of God's Truth that they have personally discovered.

It does not and cannot contain the entire of God's Truth since God's Truth is infinite and humankind will forever continue to discover more of God's Truth as we progress in receiving more of God's Love.

Please remember that due to these limitations, information contained within this document may need to be revised in the future.

Other compilation books can be found at The Written Word (thewrittenword.ca)

Handbook

Workbook

Prayer

Humility

Law of Attraction

Parenting

Soulmates

Solomon’s Message

Positively Responding to Spirit Influence

Secrets of the Universe

What Happens When You Die

Understanding Sin

The Way including Putting It All Together and Eternal Benefits

The Truth & Purpose of Jesus’ Life

How the Human Soul Functions

Faith & Prayer

Sincerity

Sexual Attraction

Fear (Revisited)

Anger is Your Guide

Forgiveness & Repentance

Addictions

The Gift of Free Will

The Three Selves & The Façade

Deconstructing the Façade & Experiencing the Hurt Self

Ethics & Morality

What Is Your Treasure

Passionately Desiring Positive Change & Taking Personal Responsibility

Qualities of Divine Truth & Desiring Divine Truth

The Power of Your Soul and Denial of the Soul

Laws Governing Love of Others and Love of Self

Law of Desire & Law of Cause & Effect

Pseudo vs True Spirituality

Getting To Know God & The World’s Definition of God

Why We Resist God & Emotional Blockages to God

Emotional Processing

Understanding Your Emotional Self

Laws of Rapport & Spirit Communication and The ‘Sleep’ State

Emotions & The ‘Mother’ Taboo and Emotions, Truth & Families

The World’s Definition of Love

Who and What God is and The Prodigal Son

The Conscience